Discussion:
cell phone / pda combo device
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JC Dill
2003-09-08 17:55:36 UTC
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I'm in the market for a cell phone / pda combo device. A friend has
the Trio and loves it. I'm looking for feedback from others with
similar devices, and pointers to any discussion groups that discuss
these devices. I'm not finding a lot of discussion on these devices
in the palm newsgroups or the cell phone newsgroups, but perhaps I'm
not using the right search terms. I don't want to just go post blind
without first finding the right group.

ObBaInternet: My friend uses the Trio to SSH into work computers and
to send/receive email and browse the web. The Trio runs on the Sprint
cell network and seems to have decent coverage (finally) in the BA.

jc
Javier Henderson
2003-09-08 18:11:10 UTC
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Post by JC Dill
I'm in the market for a cell phone / pda combo device. A friend has
the Trio and loves it. I'm looking for feedback from others with
similar devices, and pointers to any discussion groups that discuss
these devices. I'm not finding a lot of discussion on these devices
in the palm newsgroups or the cell phone newsgroups, but perhaps I'm
not using the right search terms. I don't want to just go post blind
without first finding the right group.
ObBaInternet: My friend uses the Trio to SSH into work computers and
to send/receive email and browse the web. The Trio runs on the Sprint
cell network and seems to have decent coverage (finally) in the BA.
Yes, what JC said, plus also interested in compatibility of said
device with the Cingular service most welcome.

I have a Nokia Communicator, but I don't like it (for starters, it's
not Palm OS friendly, and you can't even exchange phonebooks between
them). The battery sure lasts long though.

-jav
JC Dill
2003-09-08 18:59:02 UTC
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Post by Javier Henderson
Post by JC Dill
I'm in the market for a cell phone / pda combo device. A friend has
the Trio and loves it. I'm looking for feedback from others with
similar devices, and pointers to any discussion groups that discuss
these devices. I'm not finding a lot of discussion on these devices
in the palm newsgroups or the cell phone newsgroups, but perhaps I'm
not using the right search terms. I don't want to just go post blind
without first finding the right group.
ObBaInternet: My friend uses the Trio to SSH into work computers and
to send/receive email and browse the web. The Trio runs on the Sprint
cell network and seems to have decent coverage (finally) in the BA.
Yes, what JC said, plus also interested in compatibility of said
device with the Cingular service most welcome.
My friend with the Treo (thanks for correcting the spelling!) just
pointed me at:

http://www.treocentral.com/

which has tons of great info on the various plans and services that
the Treo works on. In particular, Sprint is giving a $300 rebate
(applied to your sprint bill after you follow the rules to get the
rebate) and this makes the effective cost $99. The biggest gotcha is
that you have to sign a 2-year contract.
Post by Javier Henderson
I have a Nokia Communicator, but I don't like it (for starters, it's
not Palm OS friendly, and you can't even exchange phonebooks between
them). The battery sure lasts long though.
OK, I'm scratching that one off my list.

jc
Javier Henderson
2003-09-08 20:47:52 UTC
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Post by JC Dill
Post by Javier Henderson
I have a Nokia Communicator, but I don't like it (for starters, it's
not Palm OS friendly, and you can't even exchange phonebooks between
them). The battery sure lasts long though.
OK, I'm scratching that one off my list.
I didn't mean to sound too negative. It's a fine phone, it's just that
if you're a Palm geek (I am), then it's not a good match. On the other
hand, it interfaces with Office just fine (I'm told, I'm definitely
not an Office aficionado). As a bone-us, you can use it as a modem
too, either via a cable or IR.

-jav
Philip J. Koenig
2003-09-08 21:57:29 UTC
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In article <***@4ax.com>, usenet-spamtrap1
@vo.cnchost.com (JC Dill) writes...
Post by JC Dill
Post by Javier Henderson
Post by JC Dill
I'm in the market for a cell phone / pda combo device. A friend has
the Trio and loves it. I'm looking for feedback from others with
similar devices, and pointers to any discussion groups that discuss
these devices. I'm not finding a lot of discussion on these devices
in the palm newsgroups or the cell phone newsgroups, but perhaps I'm
not using the right search terms. I don't want to just go post blind
without first finding the right group.
ObBaInternet: My friend uses the Trio to SSH into work computers and
to send/receive email and browse the web. The Trio runs on the Sprint
cell network and seems to have decent coverage (finally) in the BA.
Yes, what JC said, plus also interested in compatibility of said
device with the Cingular service most welcome.
My friend with the Treo (thanks for correcting the spelling!) just
http://www.treocentral.com/
which has tons of great info on the various plans and services that
the Treo works on. In particular, Sprint is giving a $300 rebate
(applied to your sprint bill after you follow the rules to get the
rebate) and this makes the effective cost $99. The biggest gotcha is
that you have to sign a 2-year contract.
Post by Javier Henderson
I have a Nokia Communicator, but I don't like it (for starters, it's
not Palm OS friendly, and you can't even exchange phonebooks between
them). The battery sure lasts long though.
OK, I'm scratching that one off my list.
The problem I have today with the Treo line comes down to:

1) I don't like any of their cellular carriers (no Verizon, no ATT)
2) Handspring has been bought by Palm and the future of those devices
may be in question.
3) I like some other alternatives better (see below)


The device I have had my eyes on for quite some time is the Kyocera
7135:

http://www.kyocera-wireless.com/7100_phone/7100_phone_series.htm


The only thing that bothers me is that some users apparently have had
some crashing problems. Very cool resource for these products to
hobnob with users and hear the latest buzz is here:

http://www.smartphonesource.com/vbulletin/index.php

(the main site is being redesigned, above is just the forum section)
--
* Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which *
* differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are *
* even incapable of forming such opinions. -- Albert Einstein *
* *
* To send email, remove numbers and spaces: pjkusenet64 @ ekahuna27 . com *
* Simple answers are for simple minds. Try a new way of looking at things. *
JC Dill
2003-09-08 22:27:50 UTC
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On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 14:57:29 -0700, Philip J. Koenig
Post by Philip J. Koenig
1) I don't like any of their cellular carriers (no Verizon, no ATT)
<http://www.treocentral.com/> lists AT&T as a carrier.

jc
dane
2003-09-09 01:05:16 UTC
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JC Dill <usenet-***@vo.cnchost.com> wrote:
: On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 14:57:29 -0700, Philip J. Koenig
: <***@ddress_below.This_one_is.invalid> wrote:
:>The problem I have today with the Treo line comes down to:
:>
:>1) I don't like any of their cellular carriers (no Verizon, no ATT)

: <http://www.treocentral.com/> lists AT&T as a carrier.

I'd guess that if this is available, it's on AT&T's new GSM network. The
coverage doesn't compare well to the older network.

Weighing in, I've got a Blackberry 6510 with Nextel, and here in the North
Bay, coverage is comperable to AT&T's old network, which means it's good.
Instant notification of emails is really nice, and it's got all normal PDA
functions such as calendaring, contacts and such.
--
Dane Jasper Sonic.net, Inc.
(707)522-1000
mailto:***@sonic.net http://www.sonic.net/

Key fingerprint = A5 D6 6E 16 D8 81 BA E9 CB BD A9 77 B3 AF 45 53
JC Dill
2003-09-09 02:18:31 UTC
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Post by dane
Weighing in, I've got a Blackberry 6510 with Nextel, and here in the North
Bay, coverage is comperable to AT&T's old network, which means it's good.
Instant notification of emails is really nice, and it's got all normal PDA
functions such as calendaring, contacts and such.
Is it a cell phone too? I'm specifically looking for a cell *phone*
with pda features (and thus including ObInternet features), not just a
fancy pda with wireless access to the Internet.

jc
dane
2003-09-09 05:09:19 UTC
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JC Dill <usenet-***@vo.cnchost.com> wrote:
: On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 01:05:16 GMT, dane <***@sonic.net> wrote:
:>Weighing in, I've got a Blackberry 6510 with Nextel, and here in the North
:>Bay, coverage is comperable to AT&T's old network, which means it's good.
:>Instant notification of emails is really nice, and it's got all normal PDA
:>functions such as calendaring, contacts and such.

: Is it a cell phone too? I'm specifically looking for a cell *phone*
: with pda features (and thus including ObInternet features), not just a
: fancy pda with wireless access to the Internet.

Yes, it's a cell phone, with Nextel's push to talk feature, plus all
standard Blackberry features. These include instant email delivery, and the
normal suite of productivity tools and contact info. It syncs with Outlook,
and can be integrated with an Exchange server, which is a really slick
sounding solution. Read something in one place, and all places are marked
read. Delete something on the Blackberry, never see it when you get back to
your desk, etc. This requires Blackberry Enterprise Server (BES), which
costs about a grand.
--
Dane Jasper Sonic.net, Inc.
(707)522-1000
mailto:***@sonic.net http://www.sonic.net/

Key fingerprint = A5 D6 6E 16 D8 81 BA E9 CB BD A9 77 B3 AF 45 53
Steve Fenwick
2003-09-09 05:49:23 UTC
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Post by dane
:>Weighing in, I've got a Blackberry 6510 with Nextel, and here in the North
:>Bay, coverage is comperable to AT&T's old network, which means it's good.
:>Instant notification of emails is really nice, and it's got all normal PDA
:>functions such as calendaring, contacts and such.
: Is it a cell phone too? I'm specifically looking for a cell *phone*
: with pda features (and thus including ObInternet features), not just a
: fancy pda with wireless access to the Internet.
Yes, it's a cell phone, with Nextel's push to talk feature, plus all
standard Blackberry features. These include instant email delivery, and the
normal suite of productivity tools and contact info. It syncs with Outlook,
and can be integrated with an Exchange server, which is a really slick
sounding solution. Read something in one place, and all places are marked
read. Delete something on the Blackberry, never see it when you get back to
your desk, etc. This requires Blackberry Enterprise Server (BES), which
costs about a grand.
IIRC, it's a cell phone that requires a wired earpiece/mic set. That
eliminated it from my list.

The Treo that's on AT&T's service is the 270, which is their GSM/GPRS
phone. OTOH, Handspring continues to tease with their 600, which looks
great but is not out yet.

Do any of the mentioned phones work with Verizon? I really like my
existing plan.

Steve
--
Steve Fenwick Anti-spammed address: steve (at) stevefenwick (dot) com
dane
2003-09-09 08:42:44 UTC
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Steve Fenwick <no-return-***@see-below.invalid> wrote:
: IIRC, it's a cell phone that requires a wired earpiece/mic set. That
: eliminated it from my list.

No, that's not correct. There is one Blackberry phone which does require
this, but the Nextel one doesn't have this limitation.

: The Treo that's on AT&T's service is the 270, which is their GSM/GPRS
: phone. OTOH, Handspring continues to tease with their 600, which looks
: great but is not out yet.

: Do any of the mentioned phones work with Verizon? I really like my
: existing plan.

AT&T's GSM network is really, really, really bad in the North Bay.
--
Dane Jasper Sonic.net, Inc.
(707)522-1000
mailto:***@sonic.net http://www.sonic.net/

Key fingerprint = A5 D6 6E 16 D8 81 BA E9 CB BD A9 77 B3 AF 45 53
Philip J. Koenig
2003-09-10 00:37:43 UTC
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Post by Steve Fenwick
Post by dane
:>Weighing in, I've got a Blackberry 6510 with Nextel, and here in the North
:>Bay, coverage is comperable to AT&T's old network, which means it's good.
:>Instant notification of emails is really nice, and it's got all normal PDA
:>functions such as calendaring, contacts and such.
: Is it a cell phone too? I'm specifically looking for a cell *phone*
: with pda features (and thus including ObInternet features), not just a
: fancy pda with wireless access to the Internet.
Yes, it's a cell phone, with Nextel's push to talk feature, plus all
standard Blackberry features. These include instant email delivery, and the
normal suite of productivity tools and contact info. It syncs with Outlook,
and can be integrated with an Exchange server, which is a really slick
sounding solution. Read something in one place, and all places are marked
read. Delete something on the Blackberry, never see it when you get back to
your desk, etc. This requires Blackberry Enterprise Server (BES), which
costs about a grand.
IIRC, it's a cell phone that requires a wired earpiece/mic set. That
eliminated it from my list.
The Treo that's on AT&T's service is the 270, which is their GSM/GPRS
phone. OTOH, Handspring continues to tease with their 600, which looks
great but is not out yet.
Do any of the mentioned phones work with Verizon? I really like my
existing plan.
The Kyocera 7135 works with Verizon, which is one of the main reasons
I've been looking at it.

Unlike the other models, it is very good as a pure phone, quite
similiar to using any other modern "flip phone" design. It also
supports 1xRTT 2.5G service (~128kbps data), web-clipping apps (like
the Palm VII, which I have now), built-in MP3 player, SD expansion
slot, etc.
--
* Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which *
* differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are *
* even incapable of forming such opinions. -- Albert Einstein *
* *
* To send email, remove numbers and spaces: pjkusenet64 @ ekahuna27 . com *
* Simple answers are for simple minds. Try a new way of looking at things. *
Philip J. Koenig
2003-09-10 00:33:43 UTC
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In article <3gd7b.19968$***@typhoon.sonic.net>, ***@sonic.net (dane)
writes...
Post by dane
:>Weighing in, I've got a Blackberry 6510 with Nextel, and here in the North
:>Bay, coverage is comperable to AT&T's old network, which means it's good.
:>Instant notification of emails is really nice, and it's got all normal PDA
:>functions such as calendaring, contacts and such.
: Is it a cell phone too? I'm specifically looking for a cell *phone*
: with pda features (and thus including ObInternet features), not just a
: fancy pda with wireless access to the Internet.
Yes, it's a cell phone, with Nextel's push to talk feature, plus all
standard Blackberry features. These include instant email delivery, and the
normal suite of productivity tools and contact info. It syncs with Outlook,
and can be integrated with an Exchange server, which is a really slick
sounding solution. Read something in one place, and all places are marked
read. Delete something on the Blackberry, never see it when you get back to
your desk, etc. This requires Blackberry Enterprise Server (BES), which
costs about a grand.
OK, I had a client bugging me to get one of those things. What killed
it was that Blackberry is firmly in bed with Microsoft, and the only
systems it integrates well with is Exchange. (blecch)

There are 3rd-party thingies to integrate the Blackberry into other
proprietary systems (ie Novell GroupWise) but integrating it with
standards-based systems like POP3 or IMAP is an uphill battle from
what I could tell. (in particular it is really a pain to switch
back/forth between this device and some other device using POP3,
no way to stop forwarding messages from the phone itself that works
well)

Another question: how does it actually work as a phone? When I see
pictures of that thing, it looks clumsy and uncomfortable as hell.
Going from something like an i90 to that would seem to be a step
backwards, seems to me. (caveat: I haven't played with one in person)
--
* Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which *
* differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are *
* even incapable of forming such opinions. -- Albert Einstein *
* *
* To send email, remove numbers and spaces: pjkusenet64 @ ekahuna27 . com *
* Simple answers are for simple minds. Try a new way of looking at things. *
dane
2003-09-10 01:57:15 UTC
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Philip J. Koenig <***@ddress_below.this_one_is.invalid> wrote:
: OK, I had a client bugging me to get one of those things. What killed
: it was that Blackberry is firmly in bed with Microsoft, and the only
: systems it integrates well with is Exchange. (blecch)

Ya, I concur, this is a drag. I'm certainly frustrated to see Exchange
become such a prevelant standard.

: Another question: how does it actually work as a phone? When I see
: pictures of that thing, it looks clumsy and uncomfortable as hell.
: Going from something like an i90 to that would seem to be a step
: backwards, seems to me. (caveat: I haven't played with one in person)

It's fine, with one problem - the hang-up button is in a really bad place
where it's easy to hit until you learn how to hold the thing.
--
Dane Jasper Sonic.net, Inc.
(707)522-1000
mailto:***@sonic.net http://www.sonic.net/

Key fingerprint = A5 D6 6E 16 D8 81 BA E9 CB BD A9 77 B3 AF 45 53
Steve Pope
2003-09-10 03:24:13 UTC
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Post by dane
Ya, I concur, this is a drag. I'm certainly frustrated to see Exchange
become such a prevelant standard.
I quibble at calling "Exchange" a standard. I call it a "product",
or maybe in this context a protocol defined by a product.

No standards body ever debated the wisdom of the
protocols used by Exchange.

Steve
Eric C. Weaver
2003-09-10 03:36:34 UTC
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Post by Steve Pope
Post by dane
Ya, I concur, this is a drag. I'm certainly frustrated to see Exchange
become such a prevelant standard.
I quibble at calling "Exchange" a standard. I call it a "product",
or maybe in this context a protocol defined by a product.
"De-facto standard," maybe, kinda the way Windows is.
Philip J. Koenig
2003-09-10 04:37:43 UTC
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In article <%xv7b.20280$***@typhoon.sonic.net>, ***@sonic.net (dane)
writes...
Post by dane
: Another question: how does it actually work as a phone? When I see
: pictures of that thing, it looks clumsy and uncomfortable as hell.
: Going from something like an i90 to that would seem to be a step
: backwards, seems to me. (caveat: I haven't played with one in person)
It's fine, with one problem - the hang-up button is in a really bad place
where it's easy to hit until you learn how to hold the thing.
So do you actually hold the whole thing up to your ear, or use an
earbud? If the latter, it will be dead-in-the-water for the person
I have in mind. Also, I'm curious whether it feels like holding
a paperback book up to your ear to talk on the phone, while getting
ear-grease all over the display. :-)
--
* Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which *
* differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are *
* even incapable of forming such opinions. -- Albert Einstein *
* *
* To send email, remove numbers and spaces: pjkusenet64 @ ekahuna27 . com *
* Simple answers are for simple minds. Try a new way of looking at things. *
dane
2003-09-10 05:46:29 UTC
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Philip J. Koenig <***@ddress_below.this_one_is.invalid> wrote:
: So do you actually hold the whole thing up to your ear, or use an
: earbud? If the latter, it will be dead-in-the-water for the person
: I have in mind. Also, I'm curious whether it feels like holding
: a paperback book up to your ear to talk on the phone, while getting
: ear-grease all over the display. :-)

You hold it like a regular phone, yes, and it's not all that big really.
The screen doesn't seem to pick up any gunk - unlike things like the Samsung
PocketPC phone, which I found to be awful.
--
Dane Jasper Sonic.net, Inc.
(707)522-1000
mailto:***@sonic.net http://www.sonic.net/

Key fingerprint = A5 D6 6E 16 D8 81 BA E9 CB BD A9 77 B3 AF 45 53
Philip J. Koenig
2003-09-10 12:44:51 UTC
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In article <VUy7b.20337$***@typhoon.sonic.net>, ***@sonic.net (dane)
writes...
Post by dane
: So do you actually hold the whole thing up to your ear, or use an
: earbud? If the latter, it will be dead-in-the-water for the person
: I have in mind. Also, I'm curious whether it feels like holding
: a paperback book up to your ear to talk on the phone, while getting
: ear-grease all over the display. :-)
You hold it like a regular phone, yes, and it's not all that big really.
The screen doesn't seem to pick up any gunk - unlike things like the Samsung
PocketPC phone, which I found to be awful.
Thanks a lot for your impressions, perhaps if I can figure out a way
around the Exchange tie-ins I may take another look at it.
--
* Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which *
* differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are *
* even incapable of forming such opinions. -- Albert Einstein *
* *
* To send email, remove numbers and spaces: pjkusenet64 @ ekahuna27 . com *
* Simple answers are for simple minds. Try a new way of looking at things. *
Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.
2003-09-13 08:09:56 UTC
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Here I am, late for the party (but speaking of..wow what a cool party we're
throwing on Tuesday! :-))...
Post by dane
Yes, it's a cell phone, with Nextel's push to talk feature, plus all
standard Blackberry features. These include instant email delivery, and
the normal suite of productivity tools and contact info. It syncs with
Outlook, and can be integrated with an Exchange server, which is a
really slick sounding solution. Read something in one place, and all
places are marked read. Delete something on the Blackberry, never see
it when you get back to your desk, etc. This requires Blackberry
Enterprise Server (BES), which costs about a grand.
I've had a Nextel Blackberry since May, after having read that of all the
handheld/PDA type devices, if your primary need is great email, the
Blackberry is the way to go. In that regard, I agree - the speed is near
blinding, the coverage is fantastic. I've been told that the Blackberry
runs on pager "frequency" (?) versus the PDA/cel phones, which run on GSM
or other 56k systems. Makes sense, although I don't know if it's true. I
*do* know that I had coverage driving all the way from the Bay area, down
to Anaheim, and *in* Disneyland (was emailing my employees from "It's a
Small World"...) ..the *only* time during that whole trip that I did not
have coverage was at the top of Topanga Canyon.

The keyboard (thumb typing) is definitely one of the best, and their text
software is very intuitive and friendly.

Now, all that said - I am awaiting my *4th* Blackberry for exchange..since
May. The keyboard keeps suddenly sounding like there is bubblewrap popping
behind it each time I press a key, and feeling like it too - I've had this
happen with 3 units now, and the *only* thing I do with my Blackberry is
carry it in its holster in my purse, or keep it in the car. I have never
spilled anything on it, or..anything. The only thing which might explain
this is it being in the car (heating, cooling, heating, cooling), and if
that is causing a problem, well, that's a problem.

So, while waiting for my 4th Blackberry, I decided to demo the T-Mobile
Sidekick (made by Danger (dngr.com) of Palo Alto). I'd been eyeing it for
a while, but, even though the monthly (data only) fee is nearly half that
of the Blackberry, I just couldn't bring myself to do it. But with the 3rd
failure of the Blackberry keyboard, it suddenly made a lot more sense to at
least give it a try.

Two drawbacks, both of which are individual user specific: the font they
use is way too small *for me*..but then, I sometimes need reading glasses
(an anticipated result of my having laser surgery - now I no longer need
glasses generally, but I do on occasion need reading glasses) - with the
Blackberry I could (just) read it without reading glasses - with the
Sidekick my eyes often feel eyestrain, especially if I try to go it without
the reading glasses for too long. It's silly to me that a unit which
otherwise has so much going on doesn't allow the user to adjust the size of
the font - heck, even if I could just bold it the problem would be solved -
in the places where their font is by default bolded, I can see it just
fine. The second drawback for me is the keyboard, which just doesn't feel
quite as perfectly right as does the one on the Blackberry - this is partly
because the Sidekick keyboard is slightly recessed, and partly because I
have very small hands..perhaps someone with larger hands would find the
Sidekick keyboard to be just fine.

Despite these two things, by the end of a week I was hooked, and in fact
just yesterday I cancelled the Blackberry service. I like that the
Sidekick screen rotates up to access the keyboard, and when closed I can
still watch and even access my email queue, and *not* have to holster the
thing to protect the keys - I can just throw it in my pocket or purse when
closed, screen still facing out (but covering the keyboard). I use the AOL
instant messenger feature a lot. And the camera attachment just sealed it
for me. Having the camera right there, and being able to instantly email
the pictures to wherever, is way cool [in fact I now have two phonecam
blogs over at textamerica.com :-)]

Oh..also, the spam filtering capabilities of the Blackberry (set up through
the web interface) are much better than the Sidekick, in part because the
Sidekick as none (but the Sidekick *can* display jpg, pdf and Word
attachments, which the Blackberry cannot). I forward my mail from my
server to my handheld units, so I solved this problem by installing spam
filtering on my server, so it wasn't a problem in the end, but it's worth
noting.

I had thought that I'd be frustrated with the service on the Sidekick being
slower than on the Blackberry - T-Mobile even told me that it would be.
But for nearly a week I had the Sidekick and the Blackberry sitting side by
side, and email often appeared on the Sidekick well before it arrived at
the Blackberry.

Of course, the real test will be our next drive to Disneyland - I suspect
the coverage will not be nearly so good, and that will frustrate me, but I
don't go out of town often enough for it to be a deciding factor.

At nearly half the price for the unit ($299 at T-Mobile - much less if you
buy online), and nearly half the price for the service ($29.99 a month for
unlimited data only - $19.99 a month in conjunction with a voice plan), the
Sidekick won me over, even though I was predisposed to *not* be won over by
it.

It *is* also a phone. It feels better to me as a phone than the Blackberry
did, and certainly more so than a Treo or any full PDA/phone. And the
phone dialing features are *really* cool. But I still am not using it as a
phone...I keep toying with it, but I'm stuck with Nextel for my phone right
now (need the # - although when "you can move your cel number between
carriers" takes effect, that may well change). Plus, I really want a
Bluetooth phone - I already have the Jabra Freespeak, and am using it with
the adapter for non-Bluetooth enabled phones..which is a pain, but I really
really enjoy having no wires.

Anne
Philip J. Koenig
2003-09-15 12:14:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@205.179.156.40>, ***@stop.mail-
abuse.org (Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.) writes...
Post by Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.
I've had a Nextel Blackberry since May, after having read that of all the
handheld/PDA type devices, if your primary need is great email, the
Blackberry is the way to go. In that regard, I agree - the speed is near
blinding, the coverage is fantastic. I've been told that the Blackberry
runs on pager "frequency" (?) versus the PDA/cel phones, which run on GSM
or other 56k systems. Makes sense, although I don't know if it's true. I
*do* know that I had coverage driving all the way from the Bay area, down
to Anaheim, and *in* Disneyland (was emailing my employees from "It's a
Small World"...) ..the *only* time during that whole trip that I did not
have coverage was at the top of Topanga Canyon.
That's not bad, but let's keep in mind that you're talking about driving
down one of the most well-traveled routes in the country and one of the
biggest entertainment parks in the country... I'd be a bit shocked if
anyone's wireless service left those areas without coverage.

What would be a better test is if you were going down highway 1, or
better yet, someplace off of a major interstate highway. :-) (pagers
typically will work there, various cellular services, or cellular-based
data services, often will not)
Post by Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.
So, while waiting for my 4th Blackberry, I decided to demo the T-Mobile
Sidekick (made by Danger (dngr.com) of Palo Alto). I'd been eyeing it for
a while, but, even though the monthly (data only) fee is nearly half that
of the Blackberry, I just couldn't bring myself to do it. But with the 3rd
failure of the Blackberry keyboard, it suddenly made a lot more sense to at
least give it a try.
Two drawbacks, both of which are individual user specific: the font they
use is way too small *for me*..but then, I sometimes need reading glasses
(an anticipated result of my having laser surgery - now I no longer need
glasses generally, but I do on occasion need reading glasses) - with the
Blackberry I could (just) read it without reading glasses - with the
Sidekick my eyes often feel eyestrain, especially if I try to go it without
the reading glasses for too long. It's silly to me that a unit which
otherwise has so much going on doesn't allow the user to adjust the size of
the font - heck, even if I could just bold it the problem would be solved -
in the places where their font is by default bolded, I can see it just
fine. The second drawback for me is the keyboard, which just doesn't feel
quite as perfectly right as does the one on the Blackberry - this is partly
because the Sidekick keyboard is slightly recessed, and partly because I
have very small hands..perhaps someone with larger hands would find the
Sidekick keyboard to be just fine.
Thanks for relating your ergonomic impressions - certainly the size of
the sidekick would lead one to believe there are some necessary tradeoffs.
Post by Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.
Despite these two things, by the end of a week I was hooked, and in fact
just yesterday I cancelled the Blackberry service. I like that the
Sidekick screen rotates up to access the keyboard, and when closed I can
still watch and even access my email queue, and *not* have to holster the
thing to protect the keys - I can just throw it in my pocket or purse when
closed, screen still facing out (but covering the keyboard). I use the AOL
instant messenger feature a lot. And the camera attachment just sealed it
for me. Having the camera right there, and being able to instantly email
the pictures to wherever, is way cool [in fact I now have two phonecam
blogs over at textamerica.com :-)]
Personally I could probably do without AIM or the camera, so for me at
least those won't add any points. But it does seem ergonomically interesting,
particularly in comparison to those Blackberry "bricks" when it comes to
using them as a phone.
Post by Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.
I had thought that I'd be frustrated with the service on the Sidekick being
slower than on the Blackberry - T-Mobile even told me that it would be.
But for nearly a week I had the Sidekick and the Blackberry sitting side by
side, and email often appeared on the Sidekick well before it arrived at
the Blackberry.
Of course, the real test will be our next drive to Disneyland - I suspect
the coverage will not be nearly so good, and that will frustrate me, but I
don't go out of town often enough for it to be a deciding factor.
That is my main trepidation about the Sidekick - T-mobile does not have
a good reputation in respect to coverage. This is one of the reasons
that certain pager-devices still have the upper-hand compared to a
cellular-based device with limited geographical coverage. When Verizon
for example rolled out their digital data service (old 14.4k CDMA type),
they never really pointed out in their marketing materials that this coverage
was not only less than their A) analog voice service area and B) digital
voice service area, but it was literally *orders of magnitude* less than
either. Imagine my surprise when staying in a hotel on the Vegas strip
back then and finding out there was no data coverage. (you don't want to
see the hotel phone bill... groan)
Post by Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.
It *is* also a phone. It feels better to me as a phone than the Blackberry
did,
Every time I see a picture of those 6xxx series Blackberry's I shake
my head thinking how anyone can hold that thing on their ear and talk..
--
* Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which *
* differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are *
* even incapable of forming such opinions. -- Albert Einstein *
* *
* To send email, remove numbers and spaces: pjkusenet64 @ ekahuna27 . com *
* Simple answers are for simple minds. Try a new way of looking at things. *
Stephen Denney
2003-10-14 18:31:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
A friend of mine wants to buy me a Blackberry as a gift, but I believe
it would be too expensive for my purposes since I need a cell phone
only for emergency purposes, such as if I am stranded on the road. She
likes it because it apparently has a walkie talkie feature. Anyone
have advice? I checked some service rates and it seems it would cost a
minimum of $40 a month, while if I get a Virgin mobile phone I can
probably get by on around $10 a month since they don't charge a
monthly fee.

- Steve Denney
Post by Philip J. Koenig
abuse.org (Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.) writes...
Post by Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.
I've had a Nextel Blackberry since May, after having read that of all the
handheld/PDA type devices, if your primary need is great email, the
Blackberry is the way to go. In that regard, I agree - the speed is near
blinding, the coverage is fantastic. I've been told that the Blackberry
runs on pager "frequency" (?) versus the PDA/cel phones, which run on GSM
or other 56k systems. Makes sense, although I don't know if it's true. I
*do* know that I had coverage driving all the way from the Bay area, down
to Anaheim, and *in* Disneyland (was emailing my employees from "It's a
Small World"...) ..the *only* time during that whole trip that I did not
have coverage was at the top of Topanga Canyon.
That's not bad, but let's keep in mind that you're talking about driving
down one of the most well-traveled routes in the country and one of the
biggest entertainment parks in the country... I'd be a bit shocked if
anyone's wireless service left those areas without coverage.
What would be a better test is if you were going down highway 1, or
better yet, someplace off of a major interstate highway. :-) (pagers
typically will work there, various cellular services, or cellular-based
data services, often will not)
Post by Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.
So, while waiting for my 4th Blackberry, I decided to demo the T-Mobile
Sidekick (made by Danger (dngr.com) of Palo Alto). I'd been eyeing it for
a while, but, even though the monthly (data only) fee is nearly half that
of the Blackberry, I just couldn't bring myself to do it. But with the 3rd
failure of the Blackberry keyboard, it suddenly made a lot more sense to at
least give it a try.
Two drawbacks, both of which are individual user specific: the font they
use is way too small *for me*..but then, I sometimes need reading glasses
(an anticipated result of my having laser surgery - now I no longer need
glasses generally, but I do on occasion need reading glasses) - with the
Blackberry I could (just) read it without reading glasses - with the
Sidekick my eyes often feel eyestrain, especially if I try to go it without
the reading glasses for too long. It's silly to me that a unit which
otherwise has so much going on doesn't allow the user to adjust the size of
the font - heck, even if I could just bold it the problem would be solved -
in the places where their font is by default bolded, I can see it just
fine. The second drawback for me is the keyboard, which just doesn't feel
quite as perfectly right as does the one on the Blackberry - this is partly
because the Sidekick keyboard is slightly recessed, and partly because I
have very small hands..perhaps someone with larger hands would find the
Sidekick keyboard to be just fine.
Thanks for relating your ergonomic impressions - certainly the size of
the sidekick would lead one to believe there are some necessary tradeoffs.
Post by Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.
Despite these two things, by the end of a week I was hooked, and in fact
just yesterday I cancelled the Blackberry service. I like that the
Sidekick screen rotates up to access the keyboard, and when closed I can
still watch and even access my email queue, and *not* have to holster the
thing to protect the keys - I can just throw it in my pocket or purse when
closed, screen still facing out (but covering the keyboard). I use the AOL
instant messenger feature a lot. And the camera attachment just sealed it
for me. Having the camera right there, and being able to instantly email
the pictures to wherever, is way cool [in fact I now have two phonecam
blogs over at textamerica.com :-)]
Personally I could probably do without AIM or the camera, so for me at
least those won't add any points. But it does seem ergonomically interesting,
particularly in comparison to those Blackberry "bricks" when it comes to
using them as a phone.
Post by Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.
I had thought that I'd be frustrated with the service on the Sidekick being
slower than on the Blackberry - T-Mobile even told me that it would be.
But for nearly a week I had the Sidekick and the Blackberry sitting side by
side, and email often appeared on the Sidekick well before it arrived at
the Blackberry.
Of course, the real test will be our next drive to Disneyland - I suspect
the coverage will not be nearly so good, and that will frustrate me, but I
don't go out of town often enough for it to be a deciding factor.
That is my main trepidation about the Sidekick - T-mobile does not have
a good reputation in respect to coverage. This is one of the reasons
that certain pager-devices still have the upper-hand compared to a
cellular-based device with limited geographical coverage. When Verizon
for example rolled out their digital data service (old 14.4k CDMA type),
they never really pointed out in their marketing materials that this coverage
was not only less than their A) analog voice service area and B) digital
voice service area, but it was literally *orders of magnitude* less than
either. Imagine my surprise when staying in a hotel on the Vegas strip
back then and finding out there was no data coverage. (you don't want to
see the hotel phone bill... groan)
Post by Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.
It *is* also a phone. It feels better to me as a phone than the Blackberry
did,
Every time I see a picture of those 6xxx series Blackberry's I shake
my head thinking how anyone can hold that thing on their ear and talk..
Philip J. Koenig
2003-10-14 23:10:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Stephen Denney
A friend of mine wants to buy me a Blackberry as a gift, but I believe
it would be too expensive for my purposes since I need a cell phone
only for emergency purposes, such as if I am stranded on the road. She
likes it because it apparently has a walkie talkie feature. Anyone
have advice? I checked some service rates and it seems it would cost a
minimum of $40 a month, while if I get a Virgin mobile phone I can
probably get by on around $10 a month since they don't charge a
monthly fee.
- Steve Denney
I suppose this is the 6510, which works on Nextel's network.

Nextel is one of the higher-priced cell carriers, in large part
because of this "walkie talkie" feature which differentiates
their product. Other carriers are working on similiar features,
which may result in more pricing pressure on Nextel.

In any case, such a feature is only interesting for people who
either work for a company where there is lots of communication
between employees, or families who want to be able to talk back/
forth with their kids and so forth without having to incur normal
cellular airtime minutes.

If a phone is only going to be used for emergency purposes, I would
think such a feature is a waste. The plans such as the Virgin one
you mention are great for occasional users, but become pretty expensive
if you start talking a lot - the per-minute price is very high.

Lastly - the Blackberry is really focused on its email functionality,
not its cellphone feature. If you aren't looking for a wireless email
device, then it's hard to imagine why that product is appropriate for
you.
--
* Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which *
* differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are *
* even incapable of forming such opinions. -- Albert Einstein *
* *
* To send email, remove numbers and spaces: pjkusenet64 @ ekahuna27 . com *
* Simple answers are for simple minds. Try a new way of looking at things. *
Ken Ashe
2003-10-15 03:43:33 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Stephen Denney
A friend of mine wants to buy me a Blackberry as a gift, but I believe
it would be too expensive for my purposes since I need a cell phone
only for emergency purposes, such as if I am stranded on the road. She
likes it because it apparently has a walkie talkie feature. Anyone
have advice? I checked some service rates and it seems it would cost a
minimum of $40 a month,
The gift that keeps on taking? :-)
Post by Stephen Denney
while if I get a Virgin mobile phone I can
probably get by on around $10 a month since they don't charge a
monthly fee.
Funny that you posted this today. Earlier in the day, I was
talking to a co-worker who felt the same way. His existing plan was
costing him $30 to $40 a month and he was using about 6 of his 300
minutes. He switched to a Virgin phone and is absolutely happy with it
and with his savings.

His daughter, on the other hand, lives on her cellphone. He's
not sure if it's ever disconnected for more than ten minutes at a
time. Definitely not the plan for her.
Malcolm Hoar
2003-10-15 05:08:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Stephen Denney
A friend of mine wants to buy me a Blackberry as a gift, but I believe
it would be too expensive for my purposes since I need a cell phone
only for emergency purposes, such as if I am stranded on the road. She
likes it because it apparently has a walkie talkie feature. Anyone
have advice? I checked some service rates and it seems it would cost a
minimum of $40 a month, while if I get a Virgin mobile phone I can
probably get by on around $10 a month since they don't charge a
monthly fee.
If it really is *only* for emergencies... see if any friends,
relatives or coworkers have an old cell phone that's been
retired. Provided the hardware is still functional you can
make 911 calls without signing up for any service plan.

I'm not sure how the 911 operators feel about folks in that
situation making a "test call" to confirm the darn thing
does actually work. I'm curious if anyone has any info on
that issue.

911 is about all you can do with it. But at least you'll
have a cellular device, and look and feel like a cool dude.
--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| ***@malch.com Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Javier Henderson
2003-10-15 13:29:06 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Malcolm Hoar
911 is about all you can do with it. But at least you'll
have a cellular device, and look and feel like a cool dude.
For maximum coolness, get a Motorola "brick" phone, circa 1990. Or
better yet, a 3 watt "bag" phone, circa 1988.

-jav
JC Dill
2003-10-15 21:11:02 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Javier Henderson
Post by Malcolm Hoar
911 is about all you can do with it. But at least you'll
have a cellular device, and look and feel like a cool dude.
For maximum coolness, get a Motorola "brick" phone, circa 1990. Or
better yet, a 3 watt "bag" phone, circa 1988.
Like the 3 watt analog bag phone I bought in 1992? I still have it.
I keep it in the trunk so that I can plug it into the lighter and get
a call out if my modern low-watt digital-signal phone can't find a
tower.

jc
Philip J. Koenig
2003-10-16 10:14:11 UTC
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In article <***@4ax.com>, usenet-spamtrap1
@vo.cnchost.com (JC Dill) writes...
Post by JC Dill
Post by Javier Henderson
Post by Malcolm Hoar
911 is about all you can do with it. But at least you'll
have a cellular device, and look and feel like a cool dude.
For maximum coolness, get a Motorola "brick" phone, circa 1990. Or
better yet, a 3 watt "bag" phone, circa 1988.
Like the 3 watt analog bag phone I bought in 1992? I still have it.
I keep it in the trunk so that I can plug it into the lighter and get
a call out if my modern low-watt digital-signal phone can't find a
tower.
There are only 2 carriers in this area that I know of that will even
support a pure analog phone: Verizon or ATT. So do you keep the phone
activated just on the off chance you might have to plug it in when you're
out in the boonies somewhere?

I would think it would be more practical to just have one of those
car kits that comes with a 3-watt amp, although I'll admit it's
probably a lot more expensive than just using a 10-yr old bag
phone you happen to have sitting around... assuming you're not paying
a monthly fee for the privilege. :-)
--
* Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which *
* differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are *
* even incapable of forming such opinions. -- Albert Einstein *
* *
* To send email, remove numbers and spaces: pjkusenet64 @ ekahuna27 . com *
* Simple answers are for simple minds. Try a new way of looking at things. *
JC Dill
2003-10-16 16:16:56 UTC
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Raw Message
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 03:14:11 -0700, Philip J. Koenig
Post by Philip J. Koenig
There are only 2 carriers in this area that I know of that will even
support a pure analog phone: Verizon or ATT. So do you keep the phone
activated just on the off chance you might have to plug it in when you're
out in the boonies somewhere?
No, it hasn't been activated in years. But when I plug it in, it
finds a tower and has signal. So it would work to dial 911.

jc
Jeff Liebermann
2003-10-15 16:18:56 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Malcolm Hoar
I'm not sure how the 911 operators feel about folks in that
situation making a "test call" to confirm the darn thing
does actually work. I'm curious if anyone has any info on
that issue.
They don't like it but won't complain. The problem is that 911 will
get the CHP instead of the local PSAP (Publc Safety Answering Point).
If you have a non-vehicle related emergency, you may find it better to
dial the local PSAP direct line instead of 911 (which requires an
activated phone). For example, for Peoples Republic of Santa Cruz
County, 831-471-1170 is an alternate for 911 to Netcom (SCCECC). Of
course, for non-emergencies, use the business phone numbers, not 911.
http://www.sccecc.org/publiced/phonelisting.html

Most cellular service providers also accept 611 or *611 for customer
service from unactivated phones. That's what I use for testing phones
and checking if they've been reported stolen.

The unactivated phones will also accept a credit card call or pre-paid
wireless PIN number. Dial the number, you'll get a voice message with
instructions on how to do the credit card or pre-paid card shuffle,
and you make the call. The big problem with pre-paid wireless is that
you can't simply story the card until you need it. Some brilliant
marketing departments have decided that the cards expire after a few
months as an incentive to using them and then paying for refills.
I've been told that there are some pre-paid wireless cards that do NOT
expire, but I haven't seen any myself. There's also some question of
one's ability to dial a long PIN number in an emergency.

There's also a rather nasty problem with some providers accepting 911
calls from roaming (out of area) phones.
Post by Malcolm Hoar
911 is about all you can do with it. But at least you'll
have a cellular device, and look and feel like a cool dude.
You might also wanna check and charge the battery. The most common
problem with most old phones is that the batteries are usually dead.
--
Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
(831)421-6491 pgr (831)336-2558 home
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
***@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us ***@cruzio.com
Malcolm Hoar
2003-10-15 17:10:38 UTC
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Post by Jeff Liebermann
Most cellular service providers also accept 611 or *611 for customer
service from unactivated phones. That's what I use for testing phones
and checking if they've been reported stolen.
The unactivated phones will also accept a credit card call or pre-paid
wireless PIN number.
Thanks muchly for the excellent info. I'll have to try some of
these experiments with my old unactivated car phone ;-)
--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| ***@malch.com Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JC Dill
2003-10-15 21:13:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:18:56 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
Post by Jeff Liebermann
There's also some question of
one's ability to dial a long PIN number in an emergency.
If it's the type of emergency where you can't dial a long PIN number,
it's usually the type of emergency that qualifies for calling 911.
All other "emergencies" (such as a flat tire) can then be handled by
using a phone card as you describe.

jc
Chuck
2003-10-16 05:23:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Stephen Denney
A friend of mine wants to buy me a Blackberry as a gift, but I believe
it would be too expensive for my purposes since I need a cell phone
only for emergency purposes, such as if I am stranded on the road. She
likes it because it apparently has a walkie talkie feature. Anyone
have advice? I checked some service rates and it seems it would cost a
minimum of $40 a month, while if I get a Virgin mobile phone I can
probably get by on around $10 a month since they don't charge a
monthly fee.
Virgin Mobile is great if you don't make a lot of calls. $20 every 3
months - 80 minutes of calls - to anywhere in the country. 10 cents /
email or SMS message. No charge for receiving voice, email, or SMS.
And they have a tech support number that answers in a few seconds,
that you call without charge.

They use the Sprint network - that may be good or bad, depending upon
opinion. I've never had a problem with call quality, though their
coverage area could be more inclusive.

Chuck
I hate spam - PLEASE get rid of the spam before emailing me!
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
Darryl Okahata
2003-09-15 14:40:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.
Plus, I really want a
Bluetooth phone - I already have the Jabra Freespeak, and am using it with
the adapter for non-Bluetooth enabled phones..which is a pain, but I really
really enjoy having no wires.
Oh, yes. Having just gotten the same Freespeak, it's very cool.
The only downside is that the blinking blue LED is blinding at night.

[ I'm currently eyeing the Sony Ericsson T616 phone, as it's the
smaller of the (only) two bluetooth phones available from my
provider. Unfortunately, I think I need to wait a while, as I'm in
the boondocks, and the GSM coverage is still pretty spotty here. ]
--
Darryl Okahata
***@soco.agilent.com

DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not
constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Agilent Technologies, or
of the little green men that have been following him all day.
Eric Wong
2003-09-08 22:31:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Philip J. Koenig <***@ddress_below.this_one_is.invalid> wrote:
[cut]
Post by Philip J. Koenig
Very cool resource for these products to
http://www.smartphonesource.com/vbulletin/index.php
(the main site is being redesigned, above is just the forum section)
Another good resource is http://pdaphonehome.com/forums/portal.php .
Patti Beadles
2003-09-08 22:46:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Philip J. Koenig
The device I have had my eyes on for quite some time is the Kyocera
After having had a Palm for a good long time, and a Treo for a good
long time, there's no way I would consider the Kyocera-- it doesn't
have a QUERTY keyboard.

Prior to the Treo I had a Samsung SPH i300, which is a Palm phone with
no keyboard. Having used the Samsung extensivey and used the Treo
extensivey, I conclude that the keyboard is absolutely vital for doing
any real network usage.

-Patti
--
Patti Beadles |
***@gammon.com | You are sick. It's the kind of
http://www.gammon.com/ | sick that we all like, mind you,
Check out www.tribe.net ! | but it is sick.
Philip J. Koenig
2003-09-10 00:46:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <bjj0rp$olq$***@blue.rahul.net>, ***@mauve.rahul.net (Patti Beadles)
writes...
Post by Patti Beadles
Post by Philip J. Koenig
The device I have had my eyes on for quite some time is the Kyocera
After having had a Palm for a good long time, and a Treo for a good
long time, there's no way I would consider the Kyocera-- it doesn't
have a QUERTY keyboard.
Yep, that is the one feature I would like that it doesn't have,
but no way you could achieve the 7135 form-factor with a qwerty
keyboard built-in that would be usable with human hands. (FWIW
you can connect one of those folding keyboards. People are hoping
Targus will make a version of their thumb keyboard for the 7135
at some point.)
--
* Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which *
* differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are *
* even incapable of forming such opinions. -- Albert Einstein *
* *
* To send email, remove numbers and spaces: pjkusenet64 @ ekahuna27 . com *
* Simple answers are for simple minds. Try a new way of looking at things. *
Patti Beadles
2003-09-10 04:02:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Philip J. Koenig
Yep, that is the one feature I would like that it doesn't have,
but no way you could achieve the 7135 form-factor with a qwerty
keyboard built-in that would be usable with human hands. (FWIW
you can connect one of those folding keyboards. People are hoping
Targus will make a version of their thumb keyboard for the 7135
at some point.)
But if you have a secondary keyboard, then you've completely lost the
concept of integrated single device.

I had an external thumb keyboard for the i300... I almost never used
it because it was a pain in the ass to carry a second gadget, and even
more of a pain to dig it out when I needed it.

OTOH, I've done interactive ssh sessions with graffiti, and I hope
never to do it again. It's not a fantastic wonderful using the Treo
keyboard, but it's not that the bear dances well...

-Patti
--
Patti Beadles |
***@gammon.com | Failure is not an option.
http://www.gammon.com/ | It comes bundled with
Check out www.tribe.net! | your Microsoft product.
Philip J. Koenig
2003-09-10 04:34:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <bjm7oh$93o$***@blue.rahul.net>, ***@mauve.rahul.net (Patti Beadles)
writes...
Post by Patti Beadles
Post by Philip J. Koenig
Yep, that is the one feature I would like that it doesn't have,
but no way you could achieve the 7135 form-factor with a qwerty
keyboard built-in that would be usable with human hands. (FWIW
you can connect one of those folding keyboards. People are hoping
Targus will make a version of their thumb keyboard for the 7135
at some point.)
But if you have a secondary keyboard, then you've completely lost the
concept of integrated single device.
I had an external thumb keyboard for the i300... I almost never used
it because it was a pain in the ass to carry a second gadget, and even
more of a pain to dig it out when I needed it.
OTOH, I've done interactive ssh sessions with graffiti, and I hope
never to do it again. It's not a fantastic wonderful using the Treo
keyboard, but it's not that the bear dances well...
Pretty much agreed on all that, but for me I need something that
functions well as a phone, not just a PDA with phone functionality
tacked-on. That was why I avoided the Samsung device you mentioned,
because while it had a really nice PDA screen, it was less useful as
an everyday phone.
--
* Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which *
* differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are *
* even incapable of forming such opinions. -- Albert Einstein *
* *
* To send email, remove numbers and spaces: pjkusenet64 @ ekahuna27 . com *
* Simple answers are for simple minds. Try a new way of looking at things. *
Javier Henderson
2003-09-10 14:43:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Philip J. Koenig
writes...
Post by Patti Beadles
Post by Philip J. Koenig
The device I have had my eyes on for quite some time is the Kyocera
After having had a Palm for a good long time, and a Treo for a good
long time, there's no way I would consider the Kyocera-- it doesn't
have a QUERTY keyboard.
Yep, that is the one feature I would like that it doesn't have,
but no way you could achieve the 7135 form-factor with a qwerty
keyboard built-in that would be usable with human hands.
Look at the Nokia 6800, it folds in half to conceal a querty
keyboard. A little cramped, but quite usable.

-jav
Philip J. Koenig
2003-09-11 00:12:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@skylane.kjsl.com>, ***@KJSL.COM (Javier Henderson)
writes...
Post by Javier Henderson
Post by Philip J. Koenig
writes...
Post by Patti Beadles
Post by Philip J. Koenig
The device I have had my eyes on for quite some time is the Kyocera
After having had a Palm for a good long time, and a Treo for a good
long time, there's no way I would consider the Kyocera-- it doesn't
have a QUERTY keyboard.
Yep, that is the one feature I would like that it doesn't have,
but no way you could achieve the 7135 form-factor with a qwerty
keyboard built-in that would be usable with human hands.
Look at the Nokia 6800, it folds in half to conceal a querty
keyboard. A little cramped, but quite usable.
Rather interesting design, hadn't seen one like that yet.

Problem is, IIRC, Nokia smartphones are Symbian-based, right?
(which has its advantages, but one of them is not Palm compatibility..)
--
* Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which *
* differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are *
* even incapable of forming such opinions. -- Albert Einstein *
* *
* To send email, remove numbers and spaces: pjkusenet64 @ ekahuna27 . com *
* Simple answers are for simple minds. Try a new way of looking at things. *
JC Dill
2003-09-11 04:41:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:12:43 -0700, Philip J. Koenig
Post by Philip J. Koenig
Problem is, IIRC, Nokia smartphones are Symbian-based, right?
(which has its advantages, but one of them is not Palm compatibility..)
I think that was one of the issues regarding the Sidekick. Does
anyone here have one or know of anyone who uses one? I have an
acquaintance who has one, but he's in Boston, so I can't just play
around with it first before I decide if I want one or not.

jc
Javier Henderson
2003-09-11 15:30:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JC Dill
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:12:43 -0700, Philip J. Koenig
Post by Philip J. Koenig
Problem is, IIRC, Nokia smartphones are Symbian-based, right?
(which has its advantages, but one of them is not Palm compatibility..)
I think that was one of the issues regarding the Sidekick. Does
anyone here have one or know of anyone who uses one? I have an
acquaintance who has one, but he's in Boston, so I can't just play
around with it first before I decide if I want one or not.
The 6800 has a built in pop3/imap client. I don't think it goes beyond
that. There are third party conduits to exchange phone books between
Nokia phones and Palm Desktop, but I never tried them, so I don't know
how well they work.

-jav
poldy
2003-09-11 18:59:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Javier Henderson
Post by JC Dill
I think that was one of the issues regarding the Sidekick. Does
anyone here have one or know of anyone who uses one? I have an
acquaintance who has one, but he's in Boston, so I can't just play
around with it first before I decide if I want one or not.
The 6800 has a built in pop3/imap client. I don't think it goes beyond
that. There are third party conduits to exchange phone books between
Nokia phones and Palm Desktop, but I never tried them, so I don't know
how well they work.
What about those Blackberries? Is the hype justified?
Randall R Schulz
2003-09-11 19:08:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by poldy
...
What about those Blackberries? Is the hype justified?
The word "hype" derives from "hyperbole."

If a claim is justified, it's not "hype."

Randy
George Mealer
2003-09-11 05:57:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Philip J. Koenig
The device I have had my eyes on for quite some time is the Kyocera
FWIW, I've had a K6035 for the last year and a half or so. It's done
pretty well by me, and it's been nice to not have to maintain two different
address lists.

However, a year and a half later, it means I'm still carrying the
equivalent of a Palm IIIxe. Given how many advancements there've been in
PalmOS devices in the last couple of years, it's been a little painful. I
want my nice fast color device w/ a 640x480 screen, darnit! :) The K7135
is a generation or so past the K6035 in terms of Palm capabilities, but
it's still midrange at best for what's currently out. Give it another year
or so, and it'll be well below the low range. Of course, that's the
standard tradeoff for a convergence device.

The only other caveat I really have with the K6035--and which may or may
not be true for the K7135--is that Verizon's support for the network
features blew. The K6135 never came with a workable WAP setup,
presumably since they assumed you'd be using the real web. However, the
14.4kbps network access and the form factor conspired to make most web
browsing pretty painful. Things may be a bit better for you at 144kbps,
which is what I believe is what Verizon supports with the K7135. Of
course, if you're on Sprint, you may have totally different options.

The big pluses of the phone have been, oddly enough, with the phone part.
Turns out that when you make your cell phone frickin' huge, you get great
sound quality, both in and out. I guess there's room for a real microphone
and ear-speaker in that gargantuan casing. Most of the people I call think
I'm on a cordless phone in my house.

All that said, I'll probably still go back to separate devices once my two-
years are up with Verizon. I'll just make it a priority to find a cell
phone that can sync with Palm Desktop.

Geo
--
George Mealer
geo*AT*snarksoft*DOT*com

"Alright, it's Saturday night...I have no date, a two-liter bottle
of Shasta, and my all-Rush mix tape. Let's rock!" -- Philip J. Fry
Philip J. Koenig
2003-09-11 21:31:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@208.201.224.154>, ***@snarksoft.invalid
(George Mealer) writes...
Post by George Mealer
Post by Philip J. Koenig
The device I have had my eyes on for quite some time is the Kyocera
FWIW, I've had a K6035 for the last year and a half or so. It's done
pretty well by me, and it's been nice to not have to maintain two different
address lists.
However, a year and a half later, it means I'm still carrying the
equivalent of a Palm IIIxe. Given how many advancements there've been in
PalmOS devices in the last couple of years, it's been a little painful. I
want my nice fast color device w/ a 640x480 screen, darnit! :) The K7135
is a generation or so past the K6035 in terms of Palm capabilities, but
it's still midrange at best for what's currently out. Give it another year
or so, and it'll be well below the low range. Of course, that's the
standard tradeoff for a convergence device.
And the models with all the latest gee-whiz PDA features, even without a
phone, don't even tend to have the wireless stuff. Probably because the
vendor would price the product out of the reach of anyone but a tiny
fraction of users.
Post by George Mealer
The only other caveat I really have with the K6035--and which may or may
not be true for the K7135--is that Verizon's support for the network
features blew. The K6135 never came with a workable WAP setup,
presumably since they assumed you'd be using the real web.
Let me tell you, if there's one thing I would not miss in the least,
it's a stupid WAP browser. That's one of the main reasons I'd get
a real PDA/smartphone: WAP sucks. What makes the Palm PDA wireless
thing particularly nice, is its compatibility with the Palm VII "web
clipping" apps. Those are what the Palm VII/VIIx/705 uses, and they
are a really neat way of doing fancy stuff by only loading tiny client
apps on the PDA side. (all the "heavy lifting" is done by the web
clipping proxy server) To me that's the icing on the cake, because
with 1xRTT you also have "realtime" web connectivity as well. (or
you could even use standard CDMA data service, at 14.4k, only using
up airtime minutes)
Post by George Mealer
However, the
14.4kbps network access and the form factor conspired to make most web
browsing pretty painful. Things may be a bit better for you at 144kbps,
which is what I believe is what Verizon supports with the K7135. Of
course, if you're on Sprint, you may have totally different options.
The CDMA 1xRTT data facility is the same whether you're on Verizon or
Sprint - Sprint might be a little cheaper and their coverage is not as
good, Verizon more expensive with better overall coverage.
Post by George Mealer
The big pluses of the phone have been, oddly enough, with the phone part.
Turns out that when you make your cell phone frickin' huge, you get great
sound quality, both in and out. I guess there's room for a real microphone
and ear-speaker in that gargantuan casing. Most of the people I call think
I'm on a cordless phone in my house.
To be honest I don't think that size is the main determinant of cellphone
audio quality. You just have to try different models out. Some of the
differences are surprising. (The 7135 is also significantly smaller/lighter
than the 6035)

I have always had a sneaky suspicion that the Qualcomm CDMA phones
(remember that Kyocera bought out Qualcomm's handset division) were
better in the audio codec respect because after all, Qualcomm is
the company that licenses the technology to everyone else and it
would behoove them to show it to best advantage in their products.
Post by George Mealer
All that said, I'll probably still go back to separate devices once my two-
years are up with Verizon. I'll just make it a priority to find a cell
phone that can sync with Palm Desktop.
The reason I want/need a dual device goes far beyond address-book
synchronization, so I suppose it's not surprising that your degree
of enthusiasm for the genre might be less than mine. :-)
--
* Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which *
* differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are *
* even incapable of forming such opinions. -- Albert Einstein *
* *
* To send email, remove numbers and spaces: pjkusenet64 @ ekahuna27 . com *
* Simple answers are for simple minds. Try a new way of looking at things. *
George Mealer
2003-09-12 22:25:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Philip J. Koenig
And the models with all the latest gee-whiz PDA features, even without
a phone, don't even tend to have the wireless stuff. Probably because
the vendor would price the product out of the reach of anyone but a
tiny fraction of users.
I suppose. The high-end Clies have both, though.
Post by Philip J. Koenig
Let me tell you, if there's one thing I would not miss in the least,
it's a stupid WAP browser. That's one of the main reasons I'd get
a real PDA/smartphone: WAP sucks. What makes the Palm PDA wireless
thing particularly nice, is its compatibility with the Palm VII "web
clipping" apps. Those are what the Palm VII/VIIx/705 uses, and they
are a really neat way of doing fancy stuff by only loading tiny client
apps on the PDA side. (all the "heavy lifting" is done by the web
clipping proxy server) To me that's the icing on the cake, because
with 1xRTT you also have "realtime" web connectivity as well. (or
you could even use standard CDMA data service, at 14.4k, only using
up airtime minutes)
Yes, the 6035 supports web clipping apps, too. My experience has been that
they mostly suck. Quite a few I've found don't work anymore, since they do
have to maintain the server-side presence. There's also a huge issue with
the ones that do--you can't highlight to cut and paste, or to dial a number
in a webpage. It's kind of a problem when you're doing directory lookup or
the like.

And yeah, WAP does suck. However, Verizon's responsible for maintaining
Verizon's WAP server, so you're generally assured that stuff on there
minimally works. It's also tuned to the low bandwidth that's available.
I'd rather have something half-assed that works than something full-
featured that's unusable.
Post by Philip J. Koenig
The CDMA 1xRTT data facility is the same whether you're on Verizon or
Sprint - Sprint might be a little cheaper and their coverage is not as
good, Verizon more expensive with better overall coverage.
OK. I thought the higher-bandwidth stuff was different between them. I'm
not that well-versed in their respective offerings anymore since I switched
from Sprint to Verizon. Sprint's service just wasn't very good, so none of
their technological bulletpoints have been attractive.
Post by Philip J. Koenig
To be honest I don't think that size is the main determinant of
cellphone audio quality. You just have to try different models out.
Some of the differences are surprising. (The 7135 is also
significantly smaller/lighter than the 6035)
That's good, re: form-factor. The K6035 is a brick.

I imagine you're right, re: the various models. All I can say for sure is
that the K6035 has been significantly better than any other cell phone I've
tried.
Post by Philip J. Koenig
The reason I want/need a dual device goes far beyond address-book
synchronization, so I suppose it's not surprising that your degree
of enthusiasm for the genre might be less than mine. :-)
I had plenty of reasons that I convinced myself on before buying the K6035.
They all turned out to be unworkable. Email takes forever to download at
14.4kbps, so has turned out to be inconvenient. Most of the web-clipping
apps have either been toys or have been nonfunctional. Even with Blazer,
surfing HTTP servers tends to give you unreadable content (and it's butt-
slow). AvantGo's not too bad, but I don't believe it supported direct-
connect from the K6035, so I'd have the same functionality from a regular
Palm.

The only things that have really turned out to be useful with the K6035
have been the cell quality, the addy book consolidation, and the unlimited
space for voice-dialing. For the $150 I paid for it, that's fine, but it
certainly doesn't justify the what, $500, they want for the K7135 right
now.

Hopefully your experience will turn out to be better.

Geo
--
George Mealer
geo*AT*snarksoft*DOT*com

"Alright, it's Saturday night...I have no date, a two-liter bottle
of Shasta, and my all-Rush mix tape. Let's rock!" -- Philip J. Fry
Philip J. Koenig
2003-09-15 11:55:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@208.201.224.154>, ***@snarksoft.invalid
(George Mealer) writes...
Post by George Mealer
Post by Philip J. Koenig
And the models with all the latest gee-whiz PDA features, even without
a phone, don't even tend to have the wireless stuff. Probably because
the vendor would price the product out of the reach of anyone but a
tiny fraction of users.
I suppose. The high-end Clies have both, though.
None of the Clie's I've seen have phone features. Some of them
have 802.11, which is a dubious distinction IMHO. Some of them
may have Bluetooth, which could be useful for certain things.
(assuming you don't collide with everyone else, once everyone
is running around with Bluetooth devices transmitting all over
the place)
Post by George Mealer
Post by Philip J. Koenig
Let me tell you, if there's one thing I would not miss in the least,
it's a stupid WAP browser. That's one of the main reasons I'd get
a real PDA/smartphone: WAP sucks. What makes the Palm PDA wireless
thing particularly nice, is its compatibility with the Palm VII "web
clipping" apps. Those are what the Palm VII/VIIx/705 uses, and they
are a really neat way of doing fancy stuff by only loading tiny client
apps on the PDA side. (all the "heavy lifting" is done by the web
clipping proxy server) To me that's the icing on the cake, because
with 1xRTT you also have "realtime" web connectivity as well. (or
you could even use standard CDMA data service, at 14.4k, only using
up airtime minutes)
Yes, the 6035 supports web clipping apps, too. My experience has been that
they mostly suck. Quite a few I've found don't work anymore, since they do
have to maintain the server-side presence. There's also a huge issue with
the ones that do--you can't highlight to cut and paste, or to dial a number
in a webpage. It's kind of a problem when you're doing directory lookup or
the like.
Well let's just say if you have web clipping apps that you use and
like (and I do) they come in very handy, and don't take gobs of memory
on the PDA side. Yep, there hasn't been as much development on them
in the last couple years, but I still think they're a great alternative
to bloated memory-hogging monstrosities where 95% of their code is not
specific to the job they're actually trying to do, and probably any
dozen other "web" apps on one's PDA is re-inventing the same wheel
and including all that junk in each one of *their* apps.. all taking
up your memory and so on. (Why download a new copy of Merriam-Webster's
webpage and try to render every bit of junk on it, every time you want
to do a 5-character query for a word like "house"??)
Post by George Mealer
And yeah, WAP does suck. However, Verizon's responsible for maintaining
Verizon's WAP server, so you're generally assured that stuff on there
minimally works. It's also tuned to the low bandwidth that's available.
I'd rather have something half-assed that works than something full-
featured that's unusable.
The problem I have with WAP, beyond the horrible UI, is the fact
that so much of the "experience" is force-fed to you by the
carrier's "partners". If I'm trying to surf the web, I want
to go where *I* want to go. If I have to spend hours "customizing"
things just so I can go someplace other than some crap content
shoved down my throat by paid advertisers... thankyou, not.
Post by George Mealer
Post by Philip J. Koenig
The CDMA 1xRTT data facility is the same whether you're on Verizon or
Sprint - Sprint might be a little cheaper and their coverage is not as
good, Verizon more expensive with better overall coverage.
OK. I thought the higher-bandwidth stuff was different between them. I'm
not that well-versed in their respective offerings anymore since I switched
from Sprint to Verizon. Sprint's service just wasn't very good, so none of
their technological bulletpoints have been attractive.
Basically Sprint and Verizon use the same technology platform: CDMA.
1xRTT is the "2.5G" CDMA high-speed data offering, and both Verizon
and Sprint support it.

The only really consistent technological differentiator between those
2 carriers is that Verizon operates in the 800 Mhz band primarily (some
segments are up in 1800 Mhz I believe) and Verizon is one of the original
"wireline" carriers (other was Cellular One, now ATT) so they have been
building their network longer, have more cell sites, and thus in general,
better coverage. Sprint's network works pretty much all on 1900 Mhz, in
order to provide coverage in the boonies they have to have roaming
agreements with analog carriers (assuming you have a dual-mode phone w/
analog) and roaming charges in those areas are very expensive. Also the
1900 Mhz signal tends not to penetrate structures as well so in general
signal quality inside buildings will be weaker on Sprint. However the
basic underlying technology (CDMA) is the same. (of course there will
always be service and quality differences between different providers,
just like the differences between ISPs that technically, are all just
"routing IP" :-)
Post by George Mealer
Post by Philip J. Koenig
To be honest I don't think that size is the main determinant of
cellphone audio quality. You just have to try different models out.
Some of the differences are surprising. (The 7135 is also
significantly smaller/lighter than the 6035)
That's good, re: form-factor. The K6035 is a brick.
True, but if you're like me and carry both a phone and PDA around
all the time, it's still actually a big net gain in terms of size
and weight by comparison. Still, the 7135 is better yet, and has
a color screen. (which hopefully compensates for its slightly
smaller screensize)
Post by George Mealer
I imagine you're right, re: the various models. All I can say for sure is
that the K6035 has been significantly better than any other cell phone I've
tried.
Good to know. (A friend of mine called me from the Sprint store a
few weeks back using a half dozen different phones, and it was pretty
surprising how much difference in sound quality there was from model
to model standing in the same place using the same carrier.)
--
* Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which *
* differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are *
* even incapable of forming such opinions. -- Albert Einstein *
* *
* To send email, remove numbers and spaces: pjkusenet64 @ ekahuna27 . com *
* Simple answers are for simple minds. Try a new way of looking at things. *
George Mealer
2003-09-15 17:27:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Philip J. Koenig
None of the Clie's I've seen have phone features. Some of them
have 802.11, which is a dubious distinction IMHO. Some of them
may have Bluetooth, which could be useful for certain things.
(assuming you don't collide with everyone else, once everyone
is running around with Bluetooth devices transmitting all over
the place)
Heh, true. On the other hand, you just said wireless. 802.11 and
Bluetooth are your only basic choices there, short of full cellular
functionality.
Post by Philip J. Koenig
all taking up your memory and so on. (Why download a new copy of
Merriam-Webster's webpage and try to render every bit of junk on it,
every time you want to do a 5-character query for a word like
"house"??)
In principle, I agree with you. The thing is that the K6035 takes 30
seconds or more from hitting connect to actually connecting, -assuming- it
works. 1 out of every 3 times, you get an error back from Verizon's "ISP"
and have to manually disconnect and try again. This lowers the geek factor
considerably. I still use the thing to find movie times, driving
directions (though not being able to cut/paste is really problematic for
those), etc. For quickie stuff, though, it was infinitely more efficient
just to keep a copy in the PDA. I strongly suggest you try out connecting
to the net before you buy the phone, if that's your intention for it.
Post by Philip J. Koenig
The problem I have with WAP, beyond the horrible UI, is the fact
that so much of the "experience" is force-fed to you by the
carrier's "partners". If I'm trying to surf the web, I want
to go where *I* want to go. If I have to spend hours "customizing"
things just so I can go someplace other than some crap content
shoved down my throat by paid advertisers... thankyou, not.
It's definitely a tradeoff. I can only go by what was useful. WAP on my
sprint phones was generally useful. Web on the K6035 wasn't.
Post by Philip J. Koenig
Basically Sprint and Verizon use the same technology platform: CDMA.
snip<
that technically, are all just "routing IP" :-)
With any luck, Verizon's wireless ISP has improved considerably. If not,
that may be a major material difference between them and Sprint.
Post by Philip J. Koenig
True, but if you're like me and carry both a phone and PDA around
all the time, it's still actually a big net gain in terms of size
and weight by comparison. Still, the 7135 is better yet, and has
a color screen. (which hopefully compensates for its slightly
smaller screensize)
Yes, that's true. Usually, if I'm travelling casually, I carry a bag of
some kind anyway and it's moot. The problem comes in if I'm on a date or
something and don't want to haul around the sack'o'geektoys. It would be
nice to have a cellphone that actually fits comfortably in my pocket.

Good luck with it. If you do go for the 7135, let us know how you like it.

Geo
--
George Mealer
geo*AT*snarksoft*DOT*com

"Alright, it's Saturday night...I have no date, a two-liter bottle
of Shasta, and my all-Rush mix tape. Let's rock!" -- Philip J. Fry
Philip J. Koenig
2003-09-15 20:37:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@208.201.224.154>, ***@snarksoft.invalid
(George Mealer) writes...
Post by George Mealer
Post by Philip J. Koenig
None of the Clie's I've seen have phone features. Some of them
have 802.11, which is a dubious distinction IMHO. Some of them
may have Bluetooth, which could be useful for certain things.
(assuming you don't collide with everyone else, once everyone
is running around with Bluetooth devices transmitting all over
the place)
Heh, true. On the other hand, you just said wireless. 802.11 and
Bluetooth are your only basic choices there, short of full cellular
functionality.
Yep, syntactical. For example the British all refer to their
cellphones as their "wireless" or "mobile". I was actually
referring to cellular.
Post by George Mealer
Post by Philip J. Koenig
all taking up your memory and so on. (Why download a new copy of
Merriam-Webster's webpage and try to render every bit of junk on it,
every time you want to do a 5-character query for a word like
"house"??)
In principle, I agree with you. The thing is that the K6035 takes 30
seconds or more from hitting connect to actually connecting, -assuming- it
works. 1 out of every 3 times, you get an error back from Verizon's "ISP"
and have to manually disconnect and try again. This lowers the geek factor
considerably. I still use the thing to find movie times, driving
directions (though not being able to cut/paste is really problematic for
those), etc. For quickie stuff, though, it was infinitely more efficient
just to keep a copy in the PDA. I strongly suggest you try out connecting
to the net before you buy the phone, if that's your intention for it.
Since the 6035 only uses "CDMA data", there is a major distinction
between it and the 7135 when doing data operations. 1xRTT is a
completely different beast. AFAIK, there is no "dialing" to speak
of like with 14.4k CDMA data.
--
* Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which *
* differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are *
* even incapable of forming such opinions. -- Albert Einstein *
* *
* To send email, remove numbers and spaces: pjkusenet64 @ ekahuna27 . com *
* Simple answers are for simple minds. Try a new way of looking at things. *
George Mealer
2003-09-15 21:36:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Philip J. Koenig
Since the 6035 only uses "CDMA data", there is a major distinction
between it and the 7135 when doing data operations. 1xRTT is a
completely different beast. AFAIK, there is no "dialing" to speak
of like with 14.4k CDMA data.
Well, that's good. We'll see where the price is at when I'm up for two-
year-renewal next spring. If it's going to be $300 or less after my $100
credit, then I may go for one in lieu of two separate devices. By that
point, there should be some good solid feedback on its performance (as well
as a firmware fix or three :)

Geo
--
George Mealer | geo*at*snarksoft*dot*com
Stephen Denney
2003-10-15 19:21:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Philip J. Koenig
Post by Stephen Denney
A friend of mine wants to buy me a Blackberry as a gift, but I believe
it would be too expensive for my purposes since I need a cell phone
only for emergency purposes, such as if I am stranded on the road. She
likes it because it apparently has a walkie talkie feature. Anyone
have advice? I checked some service rates and it seems it would cost a
minimum of $40 a month, while if I get a Virgin mobile phone I can
probably get by on around $10 a month since they don't charge a
monthly fee.
- Steve Denney
I suppose this is the 6510, which works on Nextel's network.
Nextel is one of the higher-priced cell carriers, in large part
because of this "walkie talkie" feature which differentiates
their product. Other carriers are working on similiar features,
which may result in more pricing pressure on Nextel.
In any case, such a feature is only interesting for people who
either work for a company where there is lots of communication
between employees, or families who want to be able to talk back/
forth with their kids and so forth without having to incur normal
cellular airtime minutes.
If a phone is only going to be used for emergency purposes, I would
think such a feature is a waste. The plans such as the Virgin one
you mention are great for occasional users, but become pretty expensive
if you start talking a lot - the per-minute price is very high.
Lastly - the Blackberry is really focused on its email functionality,
not its cellphone feature. If you aren't looking for a wireless email
device, then it's hard to imagine why that product is appropriate for
you.
Thank you for the helpful advice. I believe I will go with the Virgin
Mobile. Forgive the very newbie question, but since I have never owned a
cell phone before, I was wondering if it makes any difference how much
talk time the battery allows for the phone? On one model it says "Battery
allows for 2.6 hours of talk time and 4.7 days of standby time;" on the
other it says "Battery allows for up to 3.5 hours of talk time and 7.5
days of standby time." I believe the difference is because the first one
is a smaller model. Both models include battery chargers.

- Steve Denney
Post by Philip J. Koenig
-- * Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which
* * differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people
are * * even incapable of forming such opinions. -- Albert Einstein * *
com * * Simple answers are for simple minds. Try a new way of looking
at things. * -- end of forwarded message --
Ken Ashe
2003-10-16 05:23:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:21:50 -0700, Stephen Denney
Post by Stephen Denney
Thank you for the helpful advice. I believe I will go with the Virgin
Mobile. Forgive the very newbie question, but since I have never owned a
cell phone before, I was wondering if it makes any difference how much
talk time the battery allows for the phone? On one model it says "Battery
allows for 2.6 hours of talk time and 4.7 days of standby time;" on the
other it says "Battery allows for up to 3.5 hours of talk time and 7.5
days of standby time." I believe the difference is because the first one
is a smaller model. Both models include battery chargers.
For what it's worth, my standby time at home without a charger
isn't much more than two days. I've heard it's because I'm in a dead
spot whrere it spends all its time (and power) trying to contact the
mothership. The damned thing even has the gall to let me know I'm home
by losing contact a couple of times between the car and the front
door.
Philip J. Koenig
2003-10-16 10:08:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@4ax.com>, ***@rahul.net (Ken Ashe)
writes...
Post by Ken Ashe
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:21:50 -0700, Stephen Denney
Post by Stephen Denney
Thank you for the helpful advice. I believe I will go with the Virgin
Mobile. Forgive the very newbie question, but since I have never owned a
cell phone before, I was wondering if it makes any difference how much
talk time the battery allows for the phone? On one model it says "Battery
allows for 2.6 hours of talk time and 4.7 days of standby time;" on the
other it says "Battery allows for up to 3.5 hours of talk time and 7.5
days of standby time." I believe the difference is because the first one
is a smaller model. Both models include battery chargers.
For what it's worth, my standby time at home without a charger
isn't much more than two days. I've heard it's because I'm in a dead
spot whrere it spends all its time (and power) trying to contact the
mothership. The damned thing even has the gall to let me know I'm home
by losing contact a couple of times between the car and the front
door.
Battery life depends on many factors. The 2 most important are
the design of the phone and battery itself, and the service/signal
quality.

Modern phone/battery combinations tend to be much better from a
battery life standpoint than phones of a few years ago. This
is helped by the fact that most modern cellular carriers run
"digital" service which tends to be much less of a burden on a
phone battery than traditional "analog" service, particularly
in standby mode.

But many phones today are "multi-mode", which means they will
revert to analog mode if there is no digital signal available.
Typically this will eat your battery in standby 2-3 times faster
than if you were only using the phone in digital-service areas.

Then you have the issue of phone manufacturers (as with most
manufacturers of battery-powered devices) providing consistently
optimistic/best-case battery life statistics. I would err on
the conservative side if you need a specific amount of battery
life, and consider purchasing an extra battery (and keep it charged)
to pop in if the old one goes out at an inconvenient time.

Today all mobile phones include chargers, although in the old days
many of them allowed the battery to be charged separately so you
could use the phone (with another battery, or ac adapter, or car
adapter) while the battery was charging. Most chargers included
with phones today require the battery to be attached to the phone
to charge, although most vendors sell standalone battery chargers
as an add-on accessory.
--
* Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which *
* differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are *
* even incapable of forming such opinions. -- Albert Einstein *
* *
* To send email, remove numbers and spaces: pjkusenet64 @ ekahuna27 . com *
* Simple answers are for simple minds. Try a new way of looking at things. *
i***@gmail.com
2017-05-09 21:32:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JC Dill
I'm in the market for a cell phone / pda combo device. A friend has
the Trio and loves it. I'm looking for feedback from others with
similar devices, and pointers to any discussion groups that discuss
these devices. I'm not finding a lot of discussion on these devices
in the palm newsgroups or the cell phone newsgroups, but perhaps I'm
not using the right search terms. I don't want to just go post blind
without first finding the right group.
ObBaInternet: My friend uses the Trio to SSH into work computers and
to send/receive email and browse the web. The Trio runs on the Sprint
cell network and seems to have decent coverage (finally) in the BA.
jc
i***@gmail.com
2017-05-09 21:40:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JC Dill
I'm in the market for a cell phone / pda combo device. A friend has
the Trio and loves it. I'm looking for feedback from others with
similar devices, and pointers to any discussion groups that discuss
these devices. I'm not finding a lot of discussion on these devices
in the palm newsgroups or the cell phone newsgroups, but perhaps I'm
not using the right search terms. I don't want to just go post blind
without first finding the right group.
ObBaInternet: My friend uses the Trio to SSH into work computers and
to send/receive email and browse the web. The Trio runs on the Sprint
cell network and seems to have decent coverage (finally) in the BA.
jc
Try this site. it has new cel phone and products. You can also get it unlocked. this way you can use it with your own phone provider plus other products plus information. In most cases you can get free delivery.
http://www.phonegroundzero.com
Julian Macassey
2017-05-10 00:47:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 9 May 2017 14:40:58 -0700 (PDT),
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 2:32:59 PM UTC-7,
On Monday, September 8, 2003 at 10:55:36 AM UTC-7, JC Dill
Post by JC Dill
I'm in the market for a cell phone / pda combo device. A
friend has the Trio and loves it. I'm looking for feedback
from others with similar devices, and pointers to any
discussion groups that discuss these devices. I'm not
finding a lot of discussion on these devices in the palm
newsgroups or the cell phone newsgroups, but perhaps I'm not
using the right search terms. I don't want to just go post
blind without first finding the right group.
ObBaInternet: My friend uses the Trio to SSH into work
computers and to send/receive email and browse the web. The
Trio runs on the Sprint cell network and seems to have
decent coverage (finally) in the BA.
Try this site. it has new cel phone and products. You can also
get it unlocked. this way you can use it with your own phone
provider plus other products plus information. In most cases
you can get free delivery.
They can unlock my Trio? That's amazing. Where were you
fourteen years ago?
--
Michael Jackson is proof of what a person can accomplish through a
lifestyle free of alcohol or drug abuse. Ronald Reagan 1984
sms
2017-05-12 22:07:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JC Dill
I'm in the market for a cell phone / pda combo device. A friend has
the Trio and loves it. I'm looking for feedback from others with
similar devices, and pointers to any discussion groups that discuss
these devices. I'm not finding a lot of discussion on these devices
in the palm newsgroups or the cell phone newsgroups, but perhaps I'm
not using the right search terms. I don't want to just go post blind
without first finding the right group.
ObBaInternet: My friend uses the Trio to SSH into work computers and
to send/receive email and browse the web. The Trio runs on the Sprint
cell network and seems to have decent coverage (finally) in the BA.
jc
Treo, not Trio. But avoid Sprint. Stick with Verizon or AT&T. The
problem with the Treo is that it does not support the higher speed data
rates that have come online since you made this request.

There are better products available now. Consider one of the many
Android phones.
n***@sbcglobal.net
2017-05-13 18:57:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by sms
Post by JC Dill
I'm in the market for a cell phone / pda combo device. A friend has
the Trio and loves it. I'm looking for feedback from others with
similar devices, and pointers to any discussion groups that discuss
these devices. I'm not finding a lot of discussion on these devices
in the palm newsgroups or the cell phone newsgroups, but perhaps I'm
not using the right search terms. I don't want to just go post blind
without first finding the right group.
ObBaInternet: My friend uses the Trio to SSH into work computers and
to send/receive email and browse the web. The Trio runs on the Sprint
cell network and seems to have decent coverage (finally) in the BA.
jc
Treo, not Trio. But avoid Sprint. Stick with Verizon or AT&T. The
problem with the Treo is that it does not support the higher speed data
rates that have come online since you made this request.
There are better products available now. Consider one of the many
Android phones.
My first embedded systems programming was for the Palm Pilot back in 1998. I got a deal on Codewarrior which included a Palm. The battery in the Palm however had leaked so it didn't work. Codewarrior sent me a new Palm an model above the one that came with the deal. Around 2003 I started doing Pocket PC development. Skipped iOS (cost too much to get started) and started doing Android in 2009 (cost nothing to get started). These days doing mobile development with Xamarin and Visual Studio 2017 which I understand may soon allow me to at least do development for iOS wihout purchasing a Mac though I may need one for release to the AppStore.
i***@gmail.com
2017-05-09 21:37:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JC Dill
I'm in the market for a cell phone / pda combo device. A friend has
the Trio and loves it. I'm looking for feedback from others with
similar devices, and pointers to any discussion groups that discuss
these devices. I'm not finding a lot of discussion on these devices
in the palm newsgroups or the cell phone newsgroups, but perhaps I'm
not using the right search terms. I don't want to just go post blind
without first finding the right group.
ObBaInternet: My friend uses the Trio to SSH into work computers and
to send/receive email and browse the web. The Trio runs on the Sprint
cell network and seems to have decent coverage (finally) in the BA.
jc
Try this site. it has new cel phone and products. You can also get it unlocked. this way you can use it with your own phone provider plus other products plus information.
http://www.phonegroundzero.com
David Kaye
2017-05-11 21:23:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by i***@gmail.com
Try this site. it has new cel phone and products. You can also get it
unlocked. this way you can use it with your own phone
provider plus other products plus information.
You're responding to a post that is 14 -- FOURTEEN -- years old! Pay
attention to the date on the post.
Boris
2017-05-26 03:57:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by i***@gmail.com
Post by JC Dill
I'm in the market for a cell phone / pda combo device. A friend has
the Trio and loves it. I'm looking for feedback from others with
similar devices, and pointers to any discussion groups that discuss
these devices. I'm not finding a lot of discussion on these devices
in the palm newsgroups or the cell phone newsgroups, but perhaps I'm
not using the right search terms. I don't want to just go post blind
without first finding the right group.
ObBaInternet: My friend uses the Trio to SSH into work computers and
to send/receive email and browse the web. The Trio runs on the
Sprint cell network and seems to have decent coverage (finally) in
the BA.
jc
Try this site. it has new cel phone and products. You can also get it
unlocked. this way you can use it with your own phone provider plus
other products plus information. http://www.phonegroundzero.com
Interesting site, When I click on Shop, and then on a new unlocked S5,
I'm taken to an eBay seller.If I then click on details, it shows Network
is T-Mobile. I thouht it was unlocked. Is this in error, or does that
mean that the GUI is/will show T-Mobile, even if connected to another
network, such as ATT?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-In-Box-Samsung-Galaxy-S5-SM-G900T-Black-T-
Mobile-Smartphone-GSM-Unlocked-/391789217008?
_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
n***@sbcglobal.net
2017-05-26 18:36:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Boris
Post by i***@gmail.com
Post by JC Dill
I'm in the market for a cell phone / pda combo device. A friend has
the Trio and loves it. I'm looking for feedback from others with
similar devices, and pointers to any discussion groups that discuss
these devices. I'm not finding a lot of discussion on these devices
in the palm newsgroups or the cell phone newsgroups, but perhaps I'm
not using the right search terms. I don't want to just go post blind
without first finding the right group.
ObBaInternet: My friend uses the Trio to SSH into work computers and
to send/receive email and browse the web. The Trio runs on the
Sprint cell network and seems to have decent coverage (finally) in
the BA.
jc
Try this site. it has new cel phone and products. You can also get it
unlocked. this way you can use it with your own phone provider plus
other products plus information. http://www.phonegroundzero.com
Interesting site, When I click on Shop, and then on a new unlocked S5,
I'm taken to an eBay seller.If I then click on details, it shows Network
is T-Mobile. I thouht it was unlocked. Is this in error, or does that
mean that the GUI is/will show T-Mobile, even if connected to another
network, such as ATT?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-In-Box-Samsung-Galaxy-S5-SM-G900T-Black-T-
Mobile-Smartphone-GSM-Unlocked-/391789217008?
_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
I'd asked the seller but generally GSM phones run off SIM cards so you can use a SIM from another provider.
roy
2017-05-26 21:56:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
You are responding to a post from 2003??????
Post by n***@sbcglobal.net
Post by Boris
Post by i***@gmail.com
Post by JC Dill
I'm in the market for a cell phone / pda combo device. A friend has
the Trio and loves it. I'm looking for feedback from others with
similar devices, and pointers to any discussion groups that discuss
these devices. I'm not finding a lot of discussion on these devices
in the palm newsgroups or the cell phone newsgroups, but perhaps I'm
not using the right search terms. I don't want to just go post blind
without first finding the right group.
ObBaInternet: My friend uses the Trio to SSH into work computers and
to send/receive email and browse the web. The Trio runs on the
Sprint cell network and seems to have decent coverage (finally) in
the BA.
jc
Try this site. it has new cel phone and products. You can also get it
unlocked. this way you can use it with your own phone provider plus
other products plus information. http://www.phonegroundzero.com
Interesting site, When I click on Shop, and then on a new unlocked S5,
I'm taken to an eBay seller.If I then click on details, it shows Network
is T-Mobile. I thouht it was unlocked. Is this in error, or does that
mean that the GUI is/will show T-Mobile, even if connected to another
network, such as ATT?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-In-Box-Samsung-Galaxy-S5-SM-G900T-Black-T-
Mobile-Smartphone-GSM-Unlocked-/391789217008?
_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
I'd asked the seller but generally GSM phones run off SIM cards so you can use a SIM from another provider.
n***@sbcglobal.net
2017-05-27 19:29:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by roy
You are responding to a post from 2003??????
Post by n***@sbcglobal.net
Post by Boris
Post by i***@gmail.com
Post by JC Dill
I'm in the market for a cell phone / pda combo device. A friend has
the Trio and loves it. I'm looking for feedback from others with
similar devices, and pointers to any discussion groups that discuss
these devices. I'm not finding a lot of discussion on these devices
in the palm newsgroups or the cell phone newsgroups, but perhaps I'm
not using the right search terms. I don't want to just go post blind
without first finding the right group.
ObBaInternet: My friend uses the Trio to SSH into work computers and
to send/receive email and browse the web. The Trio runs on the
Sprint cell network and seems to have decent coverage (finally) in
the BA.
jc
Try this site. it has new cel phone and products. You can also get it
unlocked. this way you can use it with your own phone provider plus
other products plus information. http://www.phonegroundzero.com
Interesting site, When I click on Shop, and then on a new unlocked S5,
I'm taken to an eBay seller.If I then click on details, it shows Network
is T-Mobile. I thouht it was unlocked. Is this in error, or does that
mean that the GUI is/will show T-Mobile, even if connected to another
network, such as ATT?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-In-Box-Samsung-Galaxy-S5-SM-G900T-Black-T-
Mobile-Smartphone-GSM-Unlocked-/391789217008?
_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
I'd asked the seller but generally GSM phones run off SIM cards so you can use a SIM from another provider.
No, responding to a post from the other day. Who cares if the thread is from 2003 but people have been tacking on replies to it over the past few weeks. Maybe you need a better newsreader?
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