Discussion:
WWW.FRYS.COM appears to be unresolvable
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Glenn Geller
2014-04-11 05:39:50 UTC
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It looks like FRYS.COM is down. I think that WWW.FRYS.COM
cannot currently resolve to an IP address. I tried various DNS
servers: Google, Level3, and others

Also, no results at http://www.mxtoolbox.com

And nothing shows up in the ANSWER SECTION at
http://dnsrlookup.onlinetoolkit.org/?host=frys.com&recordtype=A

The whois at http://whois.godaddy.com says that Fry's
runs its own nameservers, so maybe Fry's run its own
web servers, too.

I sent an email to Scott Anderson, who's listed as the
contact in the whois record.

If there is in fact a problem, it might resolve itself.

Do any of you have better information or more insight?

(This isn't important, but it's interesting.)
Keith Keller
2014-04-11 06:12:01 UTC
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Post by Glenn Geller
It looks like FRYS.COM is down. I think that WWW.FRYS.COM
cannot currently resolve to an IP address. I tried various DNS
servers: Google, Level3, and others
Do any of you have better information or more insight?
http://www.intodns.com/frys.com seems to indicate that their nameservers
are currently screwed up. The name can resolve if your resolver has it
in its cache:

$ host -r www.frys.com
www.frys.com has address 209.31.22.39
www.frys.com has address 209.118.198.6

HTTP requests to the above IPs work fine. But if you try to get
information from their DNS servers directly, it's hosed:

$ host www.frys.com
www.frys.com has address 209.118.198.6
www.frys.com has address 209.31.22.39
;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached

Presumably someone at Fry's knows about the problem already, and has
some manager standing over the sysadmins reminding them how much money
per second this outage is costing them. ;-/

--keith
--
kkeller-***@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
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Kevin McMurtrie
2014-04-17 02:32:09 UTC
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Post by Keith Keller
Post by Glenn Geller
It looks like FRYS.COM is down. I think that WWW.FRYS.COM
cannot currently resolve to an IP address. I tried various DNS
servers: Google, Level3, and others
Do any of you have better information or more insight?
http://www.intodns.com/frys.com seems to indicate that their nameservers
are currently screwed up. The name can resolve if your resolver has it
$ host -r www.frys.com
www.frys.com has address 209.31.22.39
www.frys.com has address 209.118.198.6
HTTP requests to the above IPs work fine. But if you try to get
$ host www.frys.com
www.frys.com has address 209.118.198.6
www.frys.com has address 209.31.22.39
;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
Presumably someone at Fry's knows about the problem already, and has
some manager standing over the sysadmins reminding them how much money
per second this outage is costing them. ;-/
--keith
Hosting DNS entirely by yourself generally isn't a good idea. Even the
tiniest site glitch causes you to begin vanishing from networks and you
won't come back until negative caching (failure caching) expires. Pay
somebody $10 to be a backup DNS.


;; ANSWER SECTION:
frys.com. 42950 IN A 209.31.22.39

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
frys.com. 42950 IN NS ns1.frys.com.
frys.com. 42950 IN NS ns2.frys.com.

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
ns1.frys.com. 172550 IN A 209.31.22.11
ns2.frys.com. 172550 IN A 66.240.53.78
Keith Keller
2014-04-17 03:55:10 UTC
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Post by Kevin McMurtrie
Hosting DNS entirely by yourself generally isn't a good idea.
Of course that is not true. Hosting it at one site isn't a good idea.
Post by Kevin McMurtrie
Even the
tiniest site glitch causes you to begin vanishing from networks and you
won't come back until negative caching (failure caching) expires.
That is why the DNS RFCs require that you have at least two servers
which are both geographically and topologically separate. See e.g.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2182

It does suggest at least three for "organisation level zones, with at
least one which must be well removed from the others." That is, if you
have three, two can be close to each other.
Post by Kevin McMurtrie
Pay somebody $10 to be a backup DNS.
The RFCs don't specify who should run the servers, only that they are
separate. If you're not Fry's, then you might not have a nationwide
network at your disposal, in which case you need to have someone help
you with your DNS. (There are many free DNS providers out there for
personal domains; they can either run slaves while you operate a master,
or they can host all your DNS (at geographically and topologically
separate locations, of course!).)
Post by Kevin McMurtrie
frys.com. 42950 IN NS ns1.frys.com.
frys.com. 42950 IN NS ns2.frys.com.
ns1.frys.com. 172550 IN A 209.31.22.11
ns2.frys.com. 172550 IN A 66.240.53.78
If you believe GeoIP, then one of these is in Kansas, the other in
New Jersey. So Fry's meets the minimum requirements, whether they
operate their own DNS or contract it out.

--keith
--
kkeller-***@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
Kevin McMurtrie
2014-04-17 04:15:34 UTC
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Post by Keith Keller
Post by Kevin McMurtrie
Hosting DNS entirely by yourself generally isn't a good idea.
Of course that is not true. Hosting it at one site isn't a good idea.
Post by Kevin McMurtrie
Even the
tiniest site glitch causes you to begin vanishing from networks and you
won't come back until negative caching (failure caching) expires.
That is why the DNS RFCs require that you have at least two servers
which are both geographically and topologically separate. See e.g.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2182
It does suggest at least three for "organisation level zones, with at
least one which must be well removed from the others." That is, if you
have three, two can be close to each other.
Post by Kevin McMurtrie
Pay somebody $10 to be a backup DNS.
The RFCs don't specify who should run the servers, only that they are
separate. If you're not Fry's, then you might not have a nationwide
network at your disposal, in which case you need to have someone help
you with your DNS. (There are many free DNS providers out there for
personal domains; they can either run slaves while you operate a master,
or they can host all your DNS (at geographically and topologically
separate locations, of course!).)
Post by Kevin McMurtrie
frys.com. 42950 IN NS ns1.frys.com.
frys.com. 42950 IN NS ns2.frys.com.
ns1.frys.com. 172550 IN A 209.31.22.11
ns2.frys.com. 172550 IN A 66.240.53.78
If you believe GeoIP, then one of these is in Kansas, the other in
New Jersey. So Fry's meets the minimum requirements, whether they
operate their own DNS or contract it out.
--keith
Two locations means they survive a cut cable. Is there one corporate IT
plan behind them that would make them prone to having identical
malfunctions at identical times?
Keith Keller
2014-04-17 06:19:35 UTC
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Post by Kevin McMurtrie
Two locations means they survive a cut cable. Is there one corporate IT
plan behind them that would make them prone to having identical
malfunctions at identical times?
RFCs can't solve every issue. I could just as easily screw up my
master, then propagate the errors to slaves run by another ''corporate
IT plan''. Ultimately one person is responsible (presumably the tech
contact for the domain).

--keith
--
kkeller-***@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
Thad Floryan
2014-04-17 06:38:47 UTC
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Post by Keith Keller
Post by Kevin McMurtrie
Two locations means they survive a cut cable. Is there one corporate IT
plan behind them that would make them prone to having identical
malfunctions at identical times?
RFCs can't solve every issue. I could just as easily screw up my
master, then propagate the errors to slaves run by another ''corporate
IT plan''. Ultimately one person is responsible (presumably the tech
contact for the domain).
Hi Keith,

You just brought up what's been a thorn in my side for years dealing
with clients who "should" have known better regarding tech (and other)
contact(s) for the domain.

The number of times I've seen a specific person's name and presumably
a cellphone contact number in whois listings for companies at which
the person(s) is/are no longer employed is legion and great fun when
it comes time for domain renewal and other administrative functions.

The contact info should be that of a position and not a specific person
unless it's a one-person operation.

In other words the admin name, organization, address, phone number and
FAX number should be that of "ADMIN" and whomever holds that position
and/or is on duty in the company or enterprise at any given time would
be the person who responds to inquiries.

Thad
Keith Keller
2014-04-17 15:19:36 UTC
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Post by Thad Floryan
You just brought up what's been a thorn in my side for years dealing
with clients who "should" have known better regarding tech (and other)
contact(s) for the domain.
Well, in all seriousness, should they actually know better? It's so
easy to register a domain name that there are many people who are doing
Post by Thad Floryan
The number of times I've seen a specific person's name and presumably
a cellphone contact number in whois listings for companies at which
the person(s) is/are no longer employed is legion and great fun when
it comes time for domain renewal and other administrative functions.
This is the system the registrars have set up: it is designed
(intentionally or no) to let people who don't know what they are doing
screw up their whois. I do think things have marginally improved in
recent years, where one-stop providers will default to putting their own
contact information into the technical contact. That still doesn't help
when someone leaves a small business, and updating the whois is the last
thing on anyone's mind.
Post by Thad Floryan
In other words the admin name, organization, address, phone number and
FAX number should be that of "ADMIN" and whomever holds that position
and/or is on duty in the company or enterprise at any given time would
be the person who responds to inquiries.
IMO the admin should be the person who knows how to pay the
organization's bills, and/or who knows how to reach the actual tech or
primary contact (i.e., who they would be if the whois records were up to
date). If all three are the same person, then that person needs to make
sure the whois is up to date if he leaves his roles. I honestly don't
know how to enforce this. My ISP emails me every so often with my whois
records, but if I leave and cut off my email address, what happens to
that email?

--keith
--
kkeller-***@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
David Kaye
2014-04-17 20:27:33 UTC
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Post by Keith Keller
My ISP emails me every so often with my whois
records, but if I leave and cut off my email address, what happens to
that email?
I wait until the last few days before renewing domain names so that I might
get special renewal offers. I have all my domains listed with GoDaddy. I
get emails, of course, but I also get snail mail postcards, which I think is
a good thing. Though I have a phone number listed I've never been phoned by
them, though that might happen if I allow a domain name to lapse; who knows?

Interesting that has happened over the years is that I'm no longer solicited
by dozens of registrars. Used to be that I'd get so main of these that I
set up a separate email account just to deal with the domain name email.
Now the only stuff I get is from GoDaddy.
Keith Keller
2014-04-17 21:35:51 UTC
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Post by David Kaye
Post by Keith Keller
My ISP emails me every so often with my whois
records, but if I leave and cut off my email address, what happens to
that email?
I wait until the last few days before renewing domain names so that I might
get special renewal offers. I have all my domains listed with GoDaddy. I
get emails, of course, but I also get snail mail postcards, which I think is
a good thing. Though I have a phone number listed I've never been phoned by
them, though that might happen if I allow a domain name to lapse; who knows?
None of this is relevant to the problem of organizations not keeping
their whois up to date, or to the problem of people who don't know what
they're doing registering domains.

--keith
--
kkeller-***@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
David Kaye
2014-04-19 10:33:16 UTC
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Post by Keith Keller
None of this is relevant to the problem of organizations not keeping
their whois up to date, or to the problem of people who don't know what
they're doing registering domains.
I suppose I have to spell it out for you: I get both email and snail mail
from GoDaddy. GoDaddy is the largest registrar. Thus, if GoDaddy treats
other domain name owners the same as the treat me, it wouldn't matter if my
email address was not updated in the admin record because I'd get a postcard
anyway explaining that the domain name was expiring.

Thus, if whoever was responsible for the frys.com domain name has left the
company, Fry's would still get a postcard about the renewal, and probably
more postcards if they allowed it to expire.

Companies change personnel all the time, and thus email addresses can change
a lot, but they don't change their physical location very often at all.

I don't know what other registrars do, but I'm posting about what the
largest one has done about my domain name registrations.
Keith Keller
2014-04-19 18:05:22 UTC
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Post by David Kaye
I suppose I have to spell it out for you: I get both email and snail mail
from GoDaddy. GoDaddy is the largest registrar. Thus, if GoDaddy treats
other domain name owners the same as the treat me, it wouldn't matter if my
email address was not updated in the admin record because I'd get a postcard
anyway explaining that the domain name was expiring.
What happens when the kid whose dad runs the school web site graduates,
and the dad simply tosses the postcards in the trash because he doesn't
know it's important?

It is truly frightening that some people are allowed to register
domains.

--keith
--
kkeller-***@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
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jonz
2014-04-19 19:58:58 UTC
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Post by Keith Keller
It is truly frightening that some people are allowed to register
domains.
OK, I'll bite with the obvious question. What is your alternative?

Jonz
Keith Keller
2014-04-19 22:25:34 UTC
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Post by jonz
Post by Keith Keller
It is truly frightening that some people are allowed to register
domains.
OK, I'll bite with the obvious question. What is your alternative?
That's a good question, and one for which I don't have a good answer.
Ideally, only people who actually know what domain registration (and
DNS) entails, from a high-level technical perspective, should be
permitted to register a domain. So they don't necessarily need to know
the details of actually running a BIND server, but they should at least
know the rules for e.g. how many servers are required, what DNS records
are required for a minimal zone file. Perhaps they could also be
required to update their individual whois records. It used to be that
contacts were references to domain handles, so that as long as your
individual handle was up to date, you wouldn't have to update every
domain for which you were responsible. I don't know if that exists any
longer.

Another possibility might be to enforce penalties if a user doesn't
update his whois records. For example, if I leave my organization, but
don't pass on my domain responsibilities to someone else in the
organization, perhaps I have to pay a penalty. A successful pass-off of
responsibility would entail the new person explicitly accepting
responsibility of the domain; I couldn't just silently update the
records and make up a name that goes nowhere.

I suspect that most nontechnical people would protest many of these
measures. They would rather people be able to register domains easily,
and the fact that many people will screw up their domains doesn't
matter. I can actually understand that viewpoint; it's a
democratization of domain registration that is certainly desirable. So
I don't know how to address their concerns while still keeping domain
registration limited to people who know what they're doing.

--keith
--
kkeller-***@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
David Kaye
2014-04-19 22:37:10 UTC
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Post by Keith Keller
That's a good question, and one for which I don't have a good answer.
Ideally, only people who actually know what domain registration (and
DNS) entails, from a high-level technical perspective, should be
permitted to register a domain.
If it doesn't hurt you what's the problem? Even if Fry's domain expired and
I needed to reach them, I'd look up their phone number and call them. I
mean, DUH...

Believe it or not, a LOT of people know about domain names. I have a
computer customer who is, unfortunately, dumb as a brick, and is convinced
she is going to get rich selling her handmade necklaces on the web. She
received an insurance settlement over an accident (she has mobility issues),
and she has managed to register 3 domain names (to reach 3 times as many
people), is hosted by 1and1, and has set up an LLC corporation. She has her
registration certificate on her living room wall. She managed to find an
ecommerce website to handle orders, credit cards, and all that. She never
graduated grade school, and worked as a housekeeper until she slipped off a
porch.

People, even those we consider the dumbest of the dumb, can do amazing
things when they set their minds to it. Never underestimate people, even
those you think are lame.
David Kaye
2014-04-19 22:20:09 UTC
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Post by Keith Keller
What happens when the kid whose dad runs the school web site graduates,
and the dad simply tosses the postcards in the trash because he doesn't
know it's important?
This was not about a school website; it was about Fry's. (By the way, I've
been using the Fry's website all through this and didn't experience any
problems.)

For your example, the snail mail address for the school's website would be
the school's address, not the student's address. Use your HEAD!
Keith Keller
2014-04-19 22:48:56 UTC
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Post by David Kaye
Post by Keith Keller
What happens when the kid whose dad runs the school web site graduates,
and the dad simply tosses the postcards in the trash because he doesn't
know it's important?
This was not about a school website; it was about Fry's.
It was about *all* domain registration, not just Fry's. The thread
drifted, and apparently everyone with a clue understood that. Did you
not understand that?

--keith
--
kkeller-***@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
Bhairitu
2014-04-18 18:42:04 UTC
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Post by David Kaye
Post by Keith Keller
My ISP emails me every so often with my whois
records, but if I leave and cut off my email address, what happens to
that email?
I wait until the last few days before renewing domain names so that I might
get special renewal offers. I have all my domains listed with GoDaddy. I
get emails, of course, but I also get snail mail postcards, which I think is
a good thing. Though I have a phone number listed I've never been phoned by
them, though that might happen if I allow a domain name to lapse; who knows?
Interesting that has happened over the years is that I'm no longer solicited
by dozens of registrars. Used to be that I'd get so main of these that I
set up a separate email account just to deal with the domain name email.
Now the only stuff I get is from GoDaddy.
Speaking of Fry's, where's their app? If anyone should have an app
Fry's should. But they don't. I see several third party apps that
apparently just go to the Fry's site. Kroger's has one for the grocery
chain but Fry's Electronics does not. I thought the revision of the site
was to make it work better for an app. We are in the "mobile first"
phase of the Internet, after all.

Of course the Fry family were locals and I've got some of the tales from
folks who knew them and even involved when the sons started the
electronics stores. Not surprised they are a little behind the curve.
Mike Stump
2014-04-11 06:05:57 UTC
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Post by Glenn Geller
It looks like FRYS.COM is down.
Works just fine for me. (comcast)
Glenn Geller
2014-04-11 15:48:06 UTC
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The problem is fixed, not surprisingly.
y***@gmail.com
2014-10-16 07:52:09 UTC
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TXR Custom Car Audio & Accessories provides Quality Custom Installation, Car Audio, Security Systems, Mobile Video, Cruise Controls, Navigation Systems, Neon Lighting, Bluetooth Hands-Free Kits. For more information log on http://www.txrcustomcaraudio.com
t***@gmail.com
2014-10-16 07:56:51 UTC
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TXR Custom Car Audio & Accessories provides Quality Custom Installation, Car Audio, Security Systems, Mobile Video, Cruise Controls, Navigation Systems, Neon Lighting, Bluetooth Hands-Free Kits. For more information log on http://www.txrcustomcaraudio.com
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