Discussion:
Comcast raises rates again
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poldy
2016-12-12 22:11:39 UTC
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http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/12/comcast-raises-controversial-broadcast-tv-and-sports-fees-48-per-year/


So even if you cut the cord on TV, you need fast Internet to do all this
streaming.

Of course they raised the prices of the Internet with and without TV
subscription too.

Meanwhile the number of choices for Internet haven't really improved.

AT&T seems to be offering some aggressive promotions, as Comcast does
too, to get new customers.

They advertise a 75 Mbps service for $70 for 12 months but that's based
on being close enough to the VRAD and having them install bonded lines
apparently.

Already lower speed than the 105/10 that I get with Comcast but my
bundled price runs out around Sept.

AT&T hasn't expanded their Gigapower footprint, at least not to my area
though they've been in SJ and Cupertino for a couple of years supposedly.

Google has scaled back Google Fiber expansion. They seem to mostly be
about installing in a couple of neighborhoods so they can say they're in
a given city. Now they're going to some fixed wireless scheme after
acquiring some startup last year.

And of course things will only get worse under a GOP administration.
n***@sbcglobal.net
2016-12-13 19:21:44 UTC
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Post by poldy
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/12/comcast-raises-controversial-broadcast-tv-and-sports-fees-48-per-year/
So even if you cut the cord on TV, you need fast Internet to do all this
streaming.
Actually no, the codecs are getting better. Takes almost half as many bits to deliver streaming with VP9 or HEVC than H264. However VP9 (developed by Google) is royalty free which HEVC isn't. The catch is whether devices support VP9 (most Android TV devices do as well as Roku 4 and up).

Here's Viacom tech VP Jeff Tapper on why he favors VP9:
http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/Editorial/Short-Cuts/Video-How-Delivering-VP9-Can-Expand-Your-Reach-and-Save-You-Money-114925.aspx

I can even get "some" 4K at 12 Mbps but will be bumping up my U-Verse broadband to at least 24 Mbps. But I have no trouble getting 4K YouTube offerings using VP9 at 12 Mbps. Netflix suggests 24 Mbps and VUDU only 11 Mbps for 4K.

Not a lot there yet for 4K but Hulu has launched some shows and movies in 4K. Catch is for the moment the Sony PS4 Pro and Microsoft Xbox One S. Of course those are at the moment the smallest venues to start up with. I can imagine the support problems if they started with Roku first. The added benefit is they've now admitted that they also stream 1080p for some shows. But it can be a bear to get those streams until later at night here on the west coast.

https://help.hulu.com/articles/57083698
poldy
2016-12-14 20:51:59 UTC
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Post by n***@sbcglobal.net
Post by poldy
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/12/comcast-raises-controversial-broadcast-tv-and-sports-fees-48-per-year/
So even if you cut the cord on TV, you need fast Internet to do all this
streaming.
Actually no, the codecs are getting better. Takes almost half as many bits to deliver streaming with VP9 or HEVC than H264. However VP9 (developed by Google) is royalty free which HEVC isn't. The catch is whether devices support VP9 (most Android TV devices do as well as Roku 4 and up).
http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/Editorial/Short-Cuts/Video-How-Delivering-VP9-Can-Expand-Your-Reach-and-Save-You-Money-114925.aspx
I can even get "some" 4K at 12 Mbps but will be bumping up my U-Verse broadband to at least 24 Mbps. But I have no trouble getting 4K YouTube offerings using VP9 at 12 Mbps. Netflix suggests 24 Mbps and VUDU only 11 Mbps for 4K.
Not a lot there yet for 4K but Hulu has launched some shows and movies in 4K. Catch is for the moment the Sony PS4 Pro and Microsoft Xbox One S. Of course those are at the moment the smallest venues to start up with. I can imagine the support problems if they started with Roku first. The added benefit is they've now admitted that they also stream 1080p for some shows. But it can be a bear to get those streams until later at night here on the west coast.
https://help.hulu.com/articles/57083698
But who's using VP9 instead of H.265?

Netflix? Amazon Prime?

For whatever reason, the content distribution players seem to be using
H.265 despite the royalties.

I believe UHD Blu Ray supports H.265 but not VP9?
n***@sbcglobal.net
2016-12-15 19:21:48 UTC
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Post by poldy
Post by n***@sbcglobal.net
Post by poldy
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/12/comcast-raises-controversial-broadcast-tv-and-sports-fees-48-per-year/
So even if you cut the cord on TV, you need fast Internet to do all this
streaming.
Actually no, the codecs are getting better. Takes almost half as many bits to deliver streaming with VP9 or HEVC than H264. However VP9 (developed by Google) is royalty free which HEVC isn't. The catch is whether devices support VP9 (most Android TV devices do as well as Roku 4 and up).
http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/Editorial/Short-Cuts/Video-How-Delivering-VP9-Can-Expand-Your-Reach-and-Save-You-Money-114925.aspx
I can even get "some" 4K at 12 Mbps but will be bumping up my U-Verse broadband to at least 24 Mbps. But I have no trouble getting 4K YouTube offerings using VP9 at 12 Mbps. Netflix suggests 24 Mbps and VUDU only 11 Mbps for 4K.
Not a lot there yet for 4K but Hulu has launched some shows and movies in 4K. Catch is for the moment the Sony PS4 Pro and Microsoft Xbox One S. Of course those are at the moment the smallest venues to start up with. I can imagine the support problems if they started with Roku first. The added benefit is they've now admitted that they also stream 1080p for some shows. But it can be a bear to get those streams until later at night here on the west coast.
https://help.hulu.com/articles/57083698
But who's using VP9 instead of H.265?
Netflix? Amazon Prime?
For whatever reason, the content distribution players seem to be using
H.265 despite the royalties.
I believe UHD Blu Ray supports H.265 but not VP9?
http://variety.com/2016/digital/news/netflix-offline-downloads-codecs-vp9-1201932502/

Amazon seems to have a corporate war going with Google. My Roku TV supports both VP9 and H.265. I just got a $65 4K camera at Fry's to make some test videos with.

At this time UHD BD players are a bit pricey. Most people are watching 4K via the net. And yes I wouldn't be surprised if the UHD players will include VP9 though more likely waiting for AV1 (VP10). That would be for user videos and to support the streaming apps.
poldy
2016-12-15 20:44:46 UTC
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Post by n***@sbcglobal.net
Post by poldy
Post by n***@sbcglobal.net
Post by poldy
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/12/comcast-raises-controversial-broadcast-tv-and-sports-fees-48-per-year/
So even if you cut the cord on TV, you need fast Internet to do all this
streaming.
Actually no, the codecs are getting better. Takes almost half as many bits to deliver streaming with VP9 or HEVC than H264. However VP9 (developed by Google) is royalty free which HEVC isn't. The catch is whether devices support VP9 (most Android TV devices do as well as Roku 4 and up).
http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/Editorial/Short-Cuts/Video-How-Delivering-VP9-Can-Expand-Your-Reach-and-Save-You-Money-114925.aspx
I can even get "some" 4K at 12 Mbps but will be bumping up my U-Verse broadband to at least 24 Mbps. But I have no trouble getting 4K YouTube offerings using VP9 at 12 Mbps. Netflix suggests 24 Mbps and VUDU only 11 Mbps for 4K.
Not a lot there yet for 4K but Hulu has launched some shows and movies in 4K. Catch is for the moment the Sony PS4 Pro and Microsoft Xbox One S. Of course those are at the moment the smallest venues to start up with. I can imagine the support problems if they started with Roku first. The added benefit is they've now admitted that they also stream 1080p for some shows. But it can be a bear to get those streams until later at night here on the west coast.
https://help.hulu.com/articles/57083698
But who's using VP9 instead of H.265?
Netflix? Amazon Prime?
For whatever reason, the content distribution players seem to be using
H.265 despite the royalties.
I believe UHD Blu Ray supports H.265 but not VP9?
http://variety.com/2016/digital/news/netflix-offline-downloads-codecs-vp9-1201932502/
Amazon seems to have a corporate war going with Google. My Roku TV supports both VP9 and H.265. I just got a $65 4K camera at Fry's to make some test videos with.
At this time UHD BD players are a bit pricey. Most people are watching 4K via the net. And yes I wouldn't be surprised if the UHD players will include VP9 though more likely waiting for AV1 (VP10). That would be for user videos and to support the streaming apps.
Yeah unfortunately I think the world is going towards streaming, so UHD
BD will be more of a niche than even Blu Ray was, compared to DVD,
compared to Netflix.

I wonder what kind of installed base Roku has. My sense is that most
peole are viewing 4K streams through apps built into 4K TVs, at least
for now.
n***@sbcglobal.net
2016-12-15 22:06:55 UTC
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Post by poldy
Post by n***@sbcglobal.net
Post by poldy
Post by n***@sbcglobal.net
Post by poldy
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/12/comcast-raises-controversial-broadcast-tv-and-sports-fees-48-per-year/
So even if you cut the cord on TV, you need fast Internet to do all this
streaming.
Actually no, the codecs are getting better. Takes almost half as many bits to deliver streaming with VP9 or HEVC than H264. However VP9 (developed by Google) is royalty free which HEVC isn't. The catch is whether devices support VP9 (most Android TV devices do as well as Roku 4 and up).
http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/Editorial/Short-Cuts/Video-How-Delivering-VP9-Can-Expand-Your-Reach-and-Save-You-Money-114925.aspx
I can even get "some" 4K at 12 Mbps but will be bumping up my U-Verse broadband to at least 24 Mbps. But I have no trouble getting 4K YouTube offerings using VP9 at 12 Mbps. Netflix suggests 24 Mbps and VUDU only 11 Mbps for 4K.
Not a lot there yet for 4K but Hulu has launched some shows and movies in 4K. Catch is for the moment the Sony PS4 Pro and Microsoft Xbox One S. Of course those are at the moment the smallest venues to start up with. I can imagine the support problems if they started with Roku first. The added benefit is they've now admitted that they also stream 1080p for some shows. But it can be a bear to get those streams until later at night here on the west coast.
https://help.hulu.com/articles/57083698
But who's using VP9 instead of H.265?
Netflix? Amazon Prime?
For whatever reason, the content distribution players seem to be using
H.265 despite the royalties.
I believe UHD Blu Ray supports H.265 but not VP9?
http://variety.com/2016/digital/news/netflix-offline-downloads-codecs-vp9-1201932502/
Amazon seems to have a corporate war going with Google. My Roku TV supports both VP9 and H.265. I just got a $65 4K camera at Fry's to make some test videos with.
At this time UHD BD players are a bit pricey. Most people are watching 4K via the net. And yes I wouldn't be surprised if the UHD players will include VP9 though more likely waiting for AV1 (VP10). That would be for user videos and to support the streaming apps.
Yeah unfortunately I think the world is going towards streaming, so UHD
BD will be more of a niche than even Blu Ray was, compared to DVD,
compared to Netflix.
I wonder what kind of installed base Roku has. My sense is that most
peole are viewing 4K streams through apps built into 4K TVs, at least
for now.
I found that at least the Samsung UHD player supports both h265 and VP9. Sony probably does too because they have 4K camcorder customers that will want to play their videos on the device. BTW, a 51 second 4K h264 video I shot yesterday was almost 400 MB size.

I would say that Roku has a large installed base due to their range of devices and Roku TVs. Sony is now using Android for their TVs and that comes with both h265 and VP9.

I find that h265 is more optimized and encodes faster using FFMpeg than VP9.
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