Discussion:
Wi-Fi Coverage Puzzle
(too old to reply)
David Kaye
2014-07-29 05:42:04 UTC
Permalink
Okay, a new puzzle. Customer lives in a 3-story house, with each floor
being about 12 feet high. Comcast comes into the main floor where a router
is attached to the modem. Coverage okay on half of this floor, but that's
not the concern right now.

Next floor down, coverage is barely usable.

Bottom floor, no wi-fi detected whatsoever, and naturally, that's the most
critical floor needed. HOWEVER, Comcast has another co-ax outlet for a TV
on that floor. It seems that without putting up wire or lots of routers
that the easiest solution would be to add a second modem and router (or
Comcast's modem/router combo) on that floor.

But try as I might looking on their web pages, I can't figure out how this
would work. Would it need to be separate accounts? There is no need to
network upstairs and downstairs together for printers or file transfers or
anything, so the real question is whether the same cable connection can
service two modems at the same time as the same account. I phoned Comcast
and the tech didn't know, though they promised to call me back (something
Comcast has never done).

Ideas, anyone?





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Steve Pope
2014-07-29 14:26:55 UTC
Permalink
This could be one of the rare situations where something
like HomePlug makes sense.


Steve
Jeff Liebermann
2014-07-29 15:26:16 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 28 Jul 2014 22:42:04 -0700, "David Kaye"
Post by David Kaye
Ideas, anyone?
Read about MoCA:
<http://www.mocalliance.org>
<http://www.moca4installers.com>
It uses the coax cable to distribute ethernet. You'll need two, one
at each end. Plug and wireless access point into the remote and, and
you're done. I've used MoCA for IP cameras when existing coax was
available. 250ft maximum connect distance. Less if there are
splitters inline. The big problem is the cost. Figure on about
$75/box with a 2 box minimum.

You can get a dedicated MoCA to Wi-Fi bridge from Nyetgear for about
$80:
<http://www.netgear.com/service-providers/products/in-home-connectivity/moca-bridges/wm2500rp.aspx>
<http://pl.netgear.com/service-provider/products/powerline-and-coax/moca/WM2500RP.aspx#>
Actiontec also has one for about the same price:
<http://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-Dual-Band-Wireless-Extender-WCB3000NK01/dp/B00FF8ZRR8>

Images:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=moca+cable&tbm=isch>

Typical topology:
<Loading Image...>

I've done only two houses and one office building with MoCA. No
problems with Comcast except for the tendency of their phone support
people to ask for the MoCA stuff to be disconnected when they are
doing remote configuration and provisioning. I suspect that there may
be some interaction or interference.

The first house I did used the Nyetgear MCA-1001v1 which is MoCA 1.1,
and not the later 2.0. I eventually made it work, but only after
replacing several RG-6/u runs and upgrading some splitters. I also
found out the hard way that it won't work through an inline amplifier
because it needs 500-1650 MHz response in both directions (or just
1125-1650 MHz for MoCA 1.1). Get something that does MoCA 2.0, even
if you don't need the speed.

Splitters were an intersting problem. I had to make sure that all
ports had something connected to it. For unsused ports, I bought some
75 ohm terminators. That's usually not necessary for CATV, but for
MoCA, it seems to improve performance (measured with IPERF/JPERF).
Also, make sure you get 2GHz splitters, not the old 1GHz flavor.

If you're still not getting my messages, please check your kill file
filter. I just checked a few usenet news providers including
eternal-september and my stuff is there.

Good luck.
--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Steve Pope
2014-07-29 16:46:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Liebermann
Plug and wireless access point into the remote and, and
you're done. I've used MoCA for IP cameras when existing coax was
available. 250ft maximum connect distance. Less if there are
splitters inline. The big problem is the cost. Figure on about
$75/box with a 2 box minimum.
Homeplug should be significantly cheaper. Maybe not as guaranteed
to work.




Steve
Jeff Liebermann
2014-07-29 17:18:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
Homeplug should be significantly cheaper. Maybe not as guaranteed
to work.
I have a small collection of HomePlus adapter pairs of varying
denomination in my palatial office. I use them to test if the
building wiring can handle the traffic. So are, only 3-4 pairs have
been installed and are working out of maybe 50 tests. Plenty of
things can go wrong. Wrong phase on the AC line. High cable losses.
Power line filters nearby. Power strips clobber the RF signal.
Interference from other HomePlug devices in the building. Interference
from anything that belches noise back into the power line (conducted
radiation). Interference to radio equipment. Etc. The worst part is
that they may work one day, and fail the next. Things change on the
power lines, and little things like plugging something into a nearby
outlet that effectively shorts the line at RF frequencies can be
fatal. I had one that dropped out whenever the building elevator went
up or down. Noisy motor. Graphing the throughput with IPERF/JPERF
looks like an EKG. The speed goes up and down generally following the
intererence.

Not recommended.
--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Roy
2014-07-29 20:21:29 UTC
Permalink
All homeplug adapters are not the same. My IOGear ones barely worked.
I got some Netgear units and they have been perfect.

One neat Netgear box is a combo homeplug and Wifi
Post by Jeff Liebermann
Post by Steve Pope
Homeplug should be significantly cheaper. Maybe not as guaranteed
to work.
I have a small collection of HomePlus adapter pairs of varying
denomination in my palatial office. I use them to test if the
building wiring can handle the traffic. So are, only 3-4 pairs have
been installed and are working out of maybe 50 tests. Plenty of
things can go wrong. Wrong phase on the AC line. High cable losses.
Power line filters nearby. Power strips clobber the RF signal.
Interference from other HomePlug devices in the building. Interference
from anything that belches noise back into the power line (conducted
radiation). Interference to radio equipment. Etc. The worst part is
that they may work one day, and fail the next. Things change on the
power lines, and little things like plugging something into a nearby
outlet that effectively shorts the line at RF frequencies can be
fatal. I had one that dropped out whenever the building elevator went
up or down. Noisy motor. Graphing the throughput with IPERF/JPERF
looks like an EKG. The speed goes up and down generally following the
intererence.
Not recommended.
Mike Stump
2014-07-29 21:54:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Kaye
Okay, a new puzzle. Customer lives in a 3-story house, with each floor
being about 12 feet high. Comcast comes into the main floor where a router
is attached to the modem. Coverage okay on half of this floor, but that's
not the concern right now.
Next floor down, coverage is barely usable.
Bottom floor, no wi-fi detected whatsoever, and naturally, that's the most
critical floor needed. HOWEVER, Comcast has another co-ax outlet for a TV
on that floor. It seems that without putting up wire or lots of routers
that the easiest solution would be to add a second modem and router (or
Comcast's modem/router combo) on that floor.
Ah, ah, but they don't do Internet outlets the same way they do second
TV outlets. For TV, base of $60 for the first TV, and for second TV
the price is $10 for the box or $2 for a box light solution. For
Internet, the cost is n*$50 for n outlets.
Post by David Kaye
But try as I might looking on their web pages, I can't figure out how this
would work.
It is listed there in black and white. Each outlet is $50. Order as
many as you want. Most people would rather have just 1 and spend $100
on someone to put a cable or a wifi in behind a NAT. Pays for itself
in 2 months.
Post by David Kaye
Would it need to be separate accounts?
Doesn't matter much if you don't want to pay $50 for the rest of your
life on the second line.

An home ethernet installer can run a line between floors and then you
can put a wifi box on each floor. In less tech savy areas, a coax
installer can pull cat5/6, though, you might have to terminate it and
do up the face plates yourself.
David Kaye
2014-07-30 07:41:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Stump
It is listed there in black and white. Each outlet is $50. Order as
many as you want. Most people would rather have just 1 and spend $100
on someone to put a cable or a wifi in behind a NAT. Pays for itself
in 2 months.
I'm not sure where you found the $50 charge because I've been all over the
comcast.net website and looked at all the search responses for things like
"second modem", "2nd modem", and "add modem" and came up with nothing except
some forum stuff where someone said that it requires a second account.

I have not gotten a callback from Comcast (I didn't expect they would,
though they promised), and rather than spend $ on an ethernet/co-ax
converter I know nothing about, I've decided to go with a powerline WAP.
I've put in a couple good Netgear ones. The main problem is going to be
figuring out which outlets on the various floors are on the same circuits
since the breaker panel doesn't give me any info.




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