Discussion:
Google wants small developers to publish their home address
(too old to reply)
Bhairitu
2014-09-18 18:28:17 UTC
Permalink
Or get an office (or maybe a commercial mailbox service which looks like
an office suite). Google says starting September 30th developers need
to provide our "business" address which will be published on Google Play
with our app listing. This is for paid and in-app purchase apps. For
many small developers these would be our home addresses. Of course this
has developers up in arms. For one thing they already have our home
address which we provide when you sign up. And the screwy way the
notice was written it looked like you could enter the address now but
it's not in settings yet.

To me, Google is a "lemonade stand" run by immature people who can't
think things through and support for developers is a joke. Developers
should demand a more complete reason for this. Sometimes I wonder if
they want only "lunch pail developers" to be making apps for Android.
But innovative apps don't often come from big business.

Thoughts?
David Kaye
2014-09-18 18:42:47 UTC
Permalink
To me, Google is a "lemonade stand" run by immature people who can't think
things through and support for developers is a joke. Developers should
demand a more complete reason for this. Sometimes I wonder if they want
only "lunch pail developers" to be making apps for Android. But innovative
apps don't often come from big business.
Thoughts?
No, Google is not run by immature people at all. Google is first and
foremost a marketing company selling information about its users to
customers. As a user, even as a developer, you are not a customer, but you
are the product being sold to their customers. Google's customers are
everything from ad agencies to credit reporting services, HR departments to
banks.




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Bhairitu
2014-09-18 18:50:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Kaye
To me, Google is a "lemonade stand" run by immature people who can't think
things through and support for developers is a joke. Developers should
demand a more complete reason for this. Sometimes I wonder if they want
only "lunch pail developers" to be making apps for Android. But innovative
apps don't often come from big business.
Thoughts?
No, Google is not run by immature people at all. Google is first and
foremost a marketing company selling information about its users to
customers. As a user, even as a developer, you are not a customer, but you
are the product being sold to their customers. Google's customers are
everything from ad agencies to credit reporting services, HR departments to
banks.
David, have you ever had to deal with Google? My experience is from
being an Android developer and it has been underwhelming. And by no
means am I the only developer who has a problem with them.
David Kaye
2014-09-19 01:43:13 UTC
Permalink
David, have you ever had to deal with Google? My experience is from being
an Android developer and it has been underwhelming. And by no means am I
the only developer who has a problem with them.
My professional dealings with Google was buying their AdWords. The
interface was barely useful. But as for Google wanting the developers'
street addresses, well, bear in mind that Google treats everybody who isn't
spending money with them as "product" to be sold to the people who do spend
money on them. Thus, they're not being incompetent at all; they're simply
thinking of you as being of little benefit to them. Remember, there are
hundreds of thousands of apps developed for the Android platform. It is
unlikely that they're going to make any money out of m/any of them. So,
they're not treating you as a source of revenue, but as something to be sold
to others.

When in doubt follow the money trail.




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Bhairitu
2014-09-19 18:24:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Kaye
David, have you ever had to deal with Google? My experience is from being
an Android developer and it has been underwhelming. And by no means am I
the only developer who has a problem with them.
My professional dealings with Google was buying their AdWords. The
interface was barely useful. But as for Google wanting the developers'
street addresses, well, bear in mind that Google treats everybody who isn't
spending money with them as "product" to be sold to the people who do spend
money on them. Thus, they're not being incompetent at all; they're simply
thinking of you as being of little benefit to them. Remember, there are
hundreds of thousands of apps developed for the Android platform. It is
unlikely that they're going to make any money out of m/any of them. So,
they're not treating you as a source of revenue, but as something to be sold
to others.
When in doubt follow the money trail.
It's causing a bit of commotion just like the "real names" YouTube
fiasco which was rescinded. They may well rescind this. Do you
actually think some 23 year old kid fresh out of college has enough life
experience to make a decision that publishing the physical addresses of
developers is a "good idea"? That's the problem I run into with Google
and YouTube. I got hit with the real name thing and I just made a Gmail
account with the stage name used. They actually switched the account
setting for me. But I was thinking those kids probably think that "Lady
Gaga" is her real name.
Roy
2014-09-19 04:29:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bhairitu
Or get an office (or maybe a commercial mailbox service which looks like
an office suite). Google says starting September 30th developers need
to provide our "business" address which will be published on Google Play
with our app listing. This is for paid and in-app purchase apps. For
many small developers these would be our home addresses. Of course this
has developers up in arms. For one thing they already have our home
address which we provide when you sign up. And the screwy way the
notice was written it looked like you could enter the address now but
it's not in settings yet.
To me, Google is a "lemonade stand" run by immature people who can't
think things through and support for developers is a joke. Developers
should demand a more complete reason for this. Sometimes I wonder if
they want only "lunch pail developers" to be making apps for Android.
But innovative apps don't often come from big business.
Thoughts?
Its abusiness opportunity. Start a cheap mailbox service in your house.
Sell $5/year subscriptions

Ajax Apps
Suite 103
xxxxx Main street
Anytown, USA
David Kaye
2014-09-19 09:19:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roy
Its abusiness opportunity. Start a cheap mailbox service in your house.
Sell $5/year subscriptions
Ajax Apps
Suite 103
xxxxx Main street
Anytown, USA
I've actually done this twice. First there was David Kaye's Mail & Phone
Service on Hyde, and later All American Mail Service on Castro (later moved
to Market). There are a lot of people who like the convenience of having
their mail come to one of these places. The reasons are myriad: (1) They're
in a band and nobody wants to be responsible for handling the mail, (2)
they're unsure about their living situation (will they be evicted via the
Ellis Act?), (3) they travel and want a central place that can forward their
mail reliably to wherever they happen to be. And there's privacy: Lots of
police use commercial mail services because they don't want their actual
residence address getting out for fear of attack, retribution, etc.

When I was in the business I had a bunch of punk bands, Megatone Records
(pop/dance diva Sylvester), a petroleum engineer who traveled the world,
several physicians, various start-up companies, and even Fido Software at
one time (!) Yeah, Tom Jennings was a customer of mine, as was Dean Gengle
(Communitree, BBS activist, etc.)






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Bhairitu
2014-09-19 18:38:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Kaye
Post by Roy
Its abusiness opportunity. Start a cheap mailbox service in your house.
Sell $5/year subscriptions
Ajax Apps
Suite 103
xxxxx Main street
Anytown, USA
I've actually done this twice. First there was David Kaye's Mail & Phone
Service on Hyde, and later All American Mail Service on Castro (later moved
to Market). There are a lot of people who like the convenience of having
their mail come to one of these places. The reasons are myriad: (1) They're
in a band and nobody wants to be responsible for handling the mail, (2)
they're unsure about their living situation (will they be evicted via the
Ellis Act?), (3) they travel and want a central place that can forward their
mail reliably to wherever they happen to be. And there's privacy: Lots of
police use commercial mail services because they don't want their actual
residence address getting out for fear of attack, retribution, etc.
When I was in the business I had a bunch of punk bands, Megatone Records
(pop/dance diva Sylvester), a petroleum engineer who traveled the world,
several physicians, various start-up companies, and even Fido Software at
one time (!) Yeah, Tom Jennings was a customer of mine, as was Dean Gengle
(Communitree, BBS activist, etc.)
There are some people who are "business types" that this might appeal
too. But given that there are such services in the area and not much
competition I don't think a discount mailbox business would be that
lucrative. I did a search yesterday and such are limited to the USPS,
UPS stores and Pak Mail in my area. Rent is probably too high for a
discount one. What I often found looking into these was the cheap boxes
were all rented out.
Roy
2014-09-19 18:51:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bhairitu
Post by David Kaye
Post by Roy
Its abusiness opportunity. Start a cheap mailbox service in your house.
Sell $5/year subscriptions
Ajax Apps
Suite 103
xxxxx Main street
Anytown, USA
I've actually done this twice. First there was David Kaye's Mail & Phone
Service on Hyde, and later All American Mail Service on Castro (later moved
to Market). There are a lot of people who like the convenience of having
their mail come to one of these places. The reasons are myriad: (1) They're
in a band and nobody wants to be responsible for handling the mail, (2)
they're unsure about their living situation (will they be evicted via the
Ellis Act?), (3) they travel and want a central place that can forward their
mail reliably to wherever they happen to be. And there's privacy: Lots of
police use commercial mail services because they don't want their actual
residence address getting out for fear of attack, retribution, etc.
When I was in the business I had a bunch of punk bands, Megatone Records
(pop/dance diva Sylvester), a petroleum engineer who traveled the world,
several physicians, various start-up companies, and even Fido Software at
one time (!) Yeah, Tom Jennings was a customer of mine, as was Dean Gengle
(Communitree, BBS activist, etc.)
There are some people who are "business types" that this might appeal
too. But given that there are such services in the area and not much
competition I don't think a discount mailbox business would be that
lucrative. I did a search yesterday and such are limited to the USPS,
UPS stores and Pak Mail in my area. Rent is probably too high for a
discount one. What I often found looking into these was the cheap boxes
were all rented out.
I was suggesting a mail system for people who just need to satisfy
google. Holding/forwarding mail would be extra :-)

I found a company that charges 75 cents for scanning incoming mail and
$1 for forwarding a piece of mail. That gives you a price point.
David Kaye
2014-09-19 19:09:12 UTC
Permalink
I found a company that charges 75 cents for scanning incoming mail and $1
for forwarding a piece of mail. That gives you a price point.
Yeah, back in 1985 we charged $1 a piece to forward, plus postage. People
always forget the costs in doing things like this. When I had All American
Mail, we had about 75 weekly forwards, which took about 3 hours to do. We
also had about 20 daily forwards. An average client had about 5 pieces a
week to forward, so that was about $5 times 75 clients or $375 a week. But
from that one must deduct the cost of the employee, the cost of envelopes
(must be remailed in a new envelope), the postage meter rental, and of
course, the portion of floor space rental where you're storing all this
stuff.




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David Kaye
2014-09-19 19:02:15 UTC
Permalink
There are some people who are "business types" that this might appeal too.
But given that there are such services in the area and not much
competition I don't think a discount mailbox business would be that
lucrative. I did a search yesterday and such are limited to the USPS, UPS
stores and Pak Mail in my area. Rent is probably too high for a discount
one. What I often found looking into these was the cheap boxes were all
rented out.
I think the original poster was suggesting $5 a year simply as a way of
accommodating friends who wanted a mailing address, not to do it as a
business. Running a private mailbox service (or a "1583" as the Postal
Service calls them) costs about $15 a box per month to make it worthwhile,
and it must be combined with something else such as copying, shipping, etc.
If you rent out 100 boxes at $15 that's still just $1500 a month, hardly
worth the effort. Plus there's the cost of the boxes, rent, etc. It is
being done today, but always in combo with something else. Mailboxes Etc
was bought by UPS and became the UPS Store. MBE had been fairly successful
as a wrap'n'ship with mailboxes as a sideline, but it wasn't any great
moneymaker for the franchisees. Becoming the UPS Store raised their cache
(UPS has much higher cache than MBE), so they got more wrap'n'ship business,
and their mailbox rentals went up about 10-20% after the change. But the
stores have still been marginal. For the cost of franchise and floor space
it's much more profitable to open a Subway sandwich store instead.




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Bhairitu
2014-09-19 18:27:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roy
Post by Bhairitu
Or get an office (or maybe a commercial mailbox service which looks like
an office suite). Google says starting September 30th developers need
to provide our "business" address which will be published on Google Play
with our app listing. This is for paid and in-app purchase apps. For
many small developers these would be our home addresses. Of course this
has developers up in arms. For one thing they already have our home
address which we provide when you sign up. And the screwy way the
notice was written it looked like you could enter the address now but
it's not in settings yet.
To me, Google is a "lemonade stand" run by immature people who can't
think things through and support for developers is a joke. Developers
should demand a more complete reason for this. Sometimes I wonder if
they want only "lunch pail developers" to be making apps for Android.
But innovative apps don't often come from big business.
Thoughts?
Its abusiness opportunity. Start a cheap mailbox service in your house.
Sell $5/year subscriptions
Ajax Apps
Suite 103
xxxxx Main street
Anytown, USA
Seems the cheapest mailbox is $10 a month. Locally the PakMail is $15
(I already talked to the guy there last year). If this really happens
(which it might not) then I'll just use my brother-in-law's business
address (which I've done before).
b***@MIX.COM
2014-09-19 17:02:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bhairitu
To me, Google is a "lemonade stand" run by immature people who can't
think things through and support for developers is a joke. Developers
should demand a more complete reason for this. Sometimes I wonder if
they want only "lunch pail developers" to be making apps for Android.
But innovative apps don't often come from big business.
At the conclusion of a recent two day job for Viacom (not exactly a
lemonade stand, heh) I was asked for my residence address, "Just to
have it around." That's an exact quote. I told them all my mail
should go to my PO Box address, but they insisted, so I gave them
a friend's. Heh. I could have used the post office's street
address, ala 9942 Culver Blvd, #1207, if I'd known in advance they
were going to be jerks about it.

To dive even deeper into off-charter stuff, Viacom also insists on
background checks. There's a box on the form to check if you would
like a copy, so I checked it. The PI not only misspelled my name
on the envelope containing my copy, but also screwed up the address.
Luckily everyone in my post office knows me, or who knows where it
would've landed.....

The moral of this little story is take care, coz people are sloppy.

Billy Y..
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David Kaye
2014-09-19 18:51:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@MIX.COM
To dive even deeper into off-charter stuff, Viacom also insists on
background checks.
That's typical cover-yer-ass stuff. I've hired folks for a software
company, for food/beverage, and also telephone operators for my call center
business. The latter two careers can attract ne'er do wells and people who,
as I like to say, live "close to the ground".

I had a breakfast cook who was a speed freak. He could literally do the
work of two people. I made it very clear to him that I expected him to be
on his honor and do not do ANY drugs within 4 hours of duty or else I'd
bounce his ass out of there. I once had the Portland police phone me,
"We've got Michael; he was running naked down Burnside. Should we deliver
him or do you want to come pick him up?" Well, Michael was off-duty. I
picked him up, wrapped a blanket around him and adminonished him that I had
no problem with his running around naked on his off-hours but please don't
do it near the restaurant because it would reflect badly on the restaurant.
Otherwise no problem. Anyhow, you get the idea. But because I was level
with Michael and treated him directly and honestly, I had no problem with
him. He was one of our best workers, always showed up on time, and never
stole anything from us.

It's fairly easy (for me anyway) to tell from a resume and a conversation
whether the person will work out or not. If they have a passion about their
work, they'll do it or something related to it on their off-hours. (Michael
was a volunteer cook with a homeless shelter.) When I see someone with a
puffed-up resume, or someone who is just "too" polite, I give pause.
There's something amiss there.

HR departments exist to say no. Why hire a staff whose job it is to say no?
Well, because there are hundreds/thousands of people applying for jobs.
Well, don't advertise far and wide and you won't get all the scatter-shot
applicants. In fact, don't say anything about employment on your website
and don't run help wanted ads. Let the potential employees seek you out.
And rely on word of mouth from existing employees. In the industries I've
been in it's worked nicely.




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