List of Northern Calif tech and electronics stores

[Glenn Geller]

Here an alphabetical list of some Northern California tech and electronics stores. For historical interest, I threw in some defunct stores.

The list is a work in progress. Which stores might I add or delete?

**************************************************

Action Computer and Surplus (Sunnyvale)
http://www.actioncomputerstore.com

Anchor Electronics (Santa Clara)
http://www.anchor-electronics.com

Al Lasher’s Electronics (Berkeley)
http://www.allashers.com

Central Computers
(SF, Santa Clara, San Mateo, Sunnyvale, Newark)
http://www.centralcomputers.com

Digicircle (Fremont) (will-call)
http://www.digicircle.com

DigitalGuru Technical Bookshop (Sunnyvale)
http://www.digitalguru.com/aboutus.asp

Electronics Etc (Berkeley) (defunct)

Electronics Plus (San Rafael)
http://www.electronicplus. com [sic]

Excess Solutions (Miliptas)
http://www.excesssolutions.com

Fry’s Electronics
(Sunnyvale, Palo Alto, Campbell, Fremont, San Jose, Concord)
http://www.frys.com

Hometech Solutions (Cupertino)
http://www.hometech.com

HSC Electronic Supply (Santa Clara, Rohnert Park, Sacramento)
http://www.halted.com

Jameco Electronics (Belmont) (will-call)
http://www.jameco.com

Microcenter (Santa Clara)
http://www.microcenter.com

Mike Quinn Electronics (Oakland) (defunct)

Quement Electronics (San Jose) (defunct)

San Mateo Electronics (San Mateo)
http://www.smelectronics.com

Santa Cruz Electronics (Santa Cruz)
http://www.santacruzelectronics.com

Weird Stuff Warehouse (Sunnyvale)
http://www.weirdstuff.com

UC Berkeley Overstock and Surplus (Richmond)
http://businessservices.berkeley.edu/overstock/location

UC Davis Bargain Barn, Davis
http://bargainbarn.ucdavis.edu

Zack Electronics (San Francisco & Milpitas) (defunct)

[Thad Floryan]

Post by Glenn Geller
Here an alphabetical list of some Northern California tech and electronics stores. For historical interest, I threw in some defunct stores.
The list is a work in progress. Which stores might I add or delete?
[...]

Since you're including defunct ones:

U.S. Electronics
IIRC it was on or just off Alma in downtown Palo Alto

U-Do Electronics
at Castro and El Camino in Mountain View


I've always confused these two: Halted and Haltek.

One was in Mountain View and the other was in Santa Clara.

A Google search just found this:

<http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/Haltek.Electronics.408-970-3520>

Hmmm, it appears Halted is now HSC at <http://www.halted.com/>, so that
one isn't defunct.

[Bob Vaughan]

Post by Glenn Geller

Post by Glenn Geller
Here an alphabetical list of some Northern California tech and

electronics stores. For historical interest, I threw in some defunct
stores.

Post by Glenn Geller
The list is a work in progress. Which stores might I add or delete?
[...]

U.S. Electronics
IIRC it was on or just off Alma in downtown Palo Alto

El Camino Way, just north of West Meadow, now the location of Palo Alto
Commons, a retirement home.

Post by Glenn Geller
I've always confused these two: Halted and Haltek.
One was in Mountain View and the other was in Santa Clara.

Haltek was on Linda Vista (off of shoreline) in MV, across the parking
lot from Test Labs, which sold used test equipment.

Halted Specialties Company (HSC) is in Santa Clara, Sacramento, and
Santa Rosa.

Apparently they were one and the same company once upon a time, and
then the owners had a falling out, and the companies split.
I think Halted was the original, and Haltek was the one that split off.

Post by Glenn Geller
<http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/Haltek.Electronics.408-970-3520>
Hmmm, it appears Halted is now HSC at <http://www.halted.com/>, so that
one isn't defunct.

[Thad Floryan]

Post by Bob Vaughan

Post by Glenn Geller

Post by Glenn Geller
Here an alphabetical list of some Northern California tech and

electronics stores. For historical interest, I threw in some defunct
stores.

Post by Glenn Geller
The list is a work in progress. Which stores might I add or delete?
[...]

U.S. Electronics
IIRC it was on or just off Alma in downtown Palo Alto

El Camino Way, just north of West Meadow, now the location of Palo Alto
Commons, a retirement home.

Ah, yes! Now that comes back to me.

But there was one in downtown Palo Alto whose name now
escapes me. I distinctly remember buying every roll of
Ersin multicore solder they had because I couldn't find
it anyplace else "local". I still have 3 rolls which
will probably last the remainder of my life since I'm
not building as much electronic stuff as I used to do.

And there was another small one in Sunnyvale, now long
defunct, that was on South Murphy Avenue about 1/2 block
NNE from El Camino. That was the only store that had
XLR connectors and a lot of audio stuff, and a large
collection of Sam's computer books (for 6800, 6502, etc.
and the "Cookbook" series). One had to be careful there,
though, to sort through stuff on the shelves to get the
lowest prices; they always put the higher-priced new stock
in front of everything else -- if not careful and bought,
say, four of something, three might be at a higher price.
That store was a poster child for "caveat emptor". :-)

I modified one circuit from one of those "Cookbooks" to
build this little gem; note the date code on the MC1455P
is 7614 (14th week of 1976) and it's still working fine
in 2011:

<http://thadlabs.com/Illuminator/index.html>

Thad

[SMS]

Post by Thad Floryan
I modified one circuit from one of those "Cookbooks" to
build this little gem; note the date code on the MC1455P
is 7614 (14th week of 1976) and it's still working fine
<http://thadlabs.com/Illuminator/index.html>
Thad

Don Lancaster, author of TTL Cookbook and I think CMOS Cookbook still
hangs out on sci.electronics.design.

[SMS]

Hmmm, it appears Halted is now HSC at<http://www.halted.com/>, so that
one isn't defunct.

I go there often. A rather annoying place to shop because it's such a
mess, but especially good for bits and pieces of hardware, especially
metric hardware.

[Thad Floryan]

Post by SMS

Hmmm, it appears Halted is now HSC at<http://www.halted.com/>, so that
one isn't defunct.

I go there often. A rather annoying place to shop because it's such a
mess, but especially good for bits and pieces of hardware, especially
metric hardware.

Heh re: "mess". :-)

The biggest mess I've ever seen was when Jim Shuetz started
Weirdstuff Warehouse in a huge (I'm guessing 50 - 100,000 sq ft)
building in the industrial park where 237 meets Milpitas circa
1985. He used to attend either the AT&T PC Users' Group or the
AT&T Silicon Valley UNIX Users' Group (both of which I ran in
the (then) AT&T building at Duane and Lawrence Expy a block South
from 101) and gave me advance notice of the opening so I was one
of the first customers on opening day.

Weirdstuff even had a 30-foot diameter ocean liner propeller
mixed-in with all the electronics and cabling, much of which
was strewn about the floor. It became better-organized later
and then there was some issue about a retail outlet in the
business park so he had to move, downsize and ended up on Kern
Avenue across from the original Frys version 2. Frys version 1
was in the very small "center" flanked by Lawrence Expy, Oakmead
and Lakeside Drive; Randy Fry used to come to some of the AT&T
meetings too and I was one of Frys' first customers on its opening
day (year escapes me). I gave Randy the idea for the single line
checkout queue based on how queuing was implemented in military
commissaries: first in, first out; I did the same thing with my
bank but never could get Costco (formerly Price Club) to do it.

[David Kaye]

Post by Thad Floryan
The biggest mess I've ever seen was when Jim Shuetz started
Weirdstuff Warehouse in a huge (I'm guessing 50 - 100,000 sq ft)
building in the industrial park where 237 meets Milpitas circa
1985.

Yeah...<sigh> I loved that mess. Now it's just a computer store.

[SMS]

On 11/30/2011 2:43 PM, Thad Floryan wrote:

<snip>

Post by Thad Floryan
I did the same thing with my
bank but never could get Costco (formerly Price Club) to do it.

Price Club/Costco said that they lacked the staging area necessary for
that sort of queuing system.

[Thad Floryan]

Post by SMS
<snip>

Post by Thad Floryan
I did the same thing with my
bank but never could get Costco (formerly Price Club) to do it.

Price Club/Costco said that they lacked the staging area necessary for
that sort of queuing system.

Because they (Costco) never planned for it -- a BIG mistake.

The last military commissary I frequented where single-line queueing
worked perfectly was Moffett Field. There were times a giant queue
would literally wind along 2 to 3 long walls but it was in constant
forward motion and moved very rapidly -- longest wait in the queue
would be perhaps 2 to 3 minutes and it was simply amazing.

Costco's checkers would get fired within their first 5 minutes
working in such a fast-paced environment because they're too slow
which is why I don't buy any refrigerated or frozen food at Costco
with one pre-planned exception: entering the store at 8:20pm knowing
in advance where everything I want is located, getting it, and then
checking-out with no waiting. With that written, Costco is not the
place to be shopping between mid-November and December 31.

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by Thad Floryan
Costco's checkers would get fired within their first 5 minutes
working in such a fast-paced environment because they're too slow
which is why I don't buy any refrigerated or frozen food at Costco
with one pre-planned exception

Generally speaking, Costco checkers aren't that slow, and Costco is usually
very good in having one assistant helping every checker to speed things up.

The problem is that some Costco *customers* are extremely slow at checkout.
They take forever to retrieve the checkbook and write a check, or asking
the checker this and that questions that slow down the whole checkout
process for everyone.

Costco rates each of their checkers by how fast they ring up customers. The
Mountain View Costco used to have a white board that listed the top ten
fastest checkers near their customer service desk.

It was handy to remember the names of these checkers, and then get in their
lines when checking out. Their lines did move noticeably faster, part of
the reason being their ability to handle "problem aka slow" Costco customers
more expeditiously.


- Peter

[SMS]

Post by Thad Floryan
Costco's checkers would get fired within their first 5 minutes
working in such a fast-paced environment because they're too slow
which is why I don't buy any refrigerated or frozen food at Costco
with one pre-planned exception: entering the store at 8:20pm knowing
in advance where everything I want is located, getting it, and then
checking-out with no waiting. With that written, Costco is not the
place to be shopping between mid-November and December 31.

Bring an insulated bag with you. If possible put some ice in it. They
sell them for $6 at Costco.

Actually the times they have the shortest lines are the busiest times
when they put on more checkers.

You also have to learn to size up customers when selection which line to
get in. Profile which customers are most likely to pay with a check or
cash, which takes longer than a credit card. Watch out for customers
that have no basket and that keep looking back because they are often
waiting for someone with a huge load of stuff that they will allow to
cut in line (a single line, with rails so no cutting with baskets would
be possible, would solve this problem, though hand carried items could
still be carried in).

[Travis James]

Post by SMS
You also have to learn to size up customers when selection which line to
get in. Profile which customers are most likely to pay with a check or
cash, which takes longer than a credit card. Watch out for customers
that have no basket and that keep looking back because they are often
waiting for someone with a huge load of stuff that they will allow to
cut in line (a single line, with rails so no cutting with baskets would
be possible, would solve this problem, though hand carried items could
still be carried in).

At risk of channeling my inner Tim May, certain cultures are more prone
to having no sense of urgency and lack of care for how long the line is
behind them.

[SMS]

Post by Travis James
At risk of channeling my inner Tim May, certain cultures are more prone
to having no sense of urgency and lack of care for how long the line is
behind them.

In my experience, bad manners at Costco are cross-cultural.

The best time I had was when the woman behind me let her friend with a
full basket cut in front of her. There were complaints behind her which
she ignored. I told her it was not right what she did, and she got angry
and said "who are you, the Costco police? I can let anyone in front of
me that I want." I replied to her, "so can I" and I let several
customers behind her get in line in front of me. It was priceless.

Now if I'm in line at Costco and I see someone with no basket constantly
looking back, I leave no space in front of my cart, and if they try to
leave a big space in front of them I ask "are you in line?" and they
move forward.

[Thad Floryan]

Post by SMS

Post by Thad Floryan
Costco's checkers would get fired within their first 5 minutes
working in such a fast-paced environment because they're too slow
which is why I don't buy any refrigerated or frozen food at Costco
with one pre-planned exception: entering the store at 8:20pm knowing
in advance where everything I want is located, getting it, and then
checking-out with no waiting. With that written, Costco is not the
place to be shopping between mid-November and December 31.

Bring an insulated bag with you. If possible put some ice in it. They
sell them for $6 at Costco.

That kind of kills any savings shopping at Costco.

Biggest problem I've had with Costco is stocking longevity.

What that means is they'll sometimes get a great product, I'll
try it, will be able to buy it one more time, and then it's
discontinued. This has happened time and time again with some
truly great food products which I later learned were overruns
of airlines' 1st class food services.

To avoid future disappointment I just don't buy any food products
at Costco anymore and stick with Andronico's, Draeger, Lucky
and Safeway which are all within 1/4 to 2 miles of my home -- between
those four I can get [almost] everything I want.

There's a TJ about 3 walking minutes from my home but one risks one's
life shopping at any TJs due to all the distracted drivers texting in
every TJ's parking area (Los Altos, Mountain View, San Mateo, etc.).
I'm not the only one with that observation:

<http://blogs.sfweekly.com/foodie/2011/01/why_everyone_at_trader_joes_hates_you.php>
"
" Every Trader Joe's parking lot everywhere is an effed-up jungle from hell."

The San Mateo TJ was about 200 yards from my office and I could see
the effed-up jungle from hell traffic there from my desk through the window.

Besides, TJ's produce is crap (almost always beyond expiration) and
they, too, frequently don't restock good items I've liked so I haven't
shopped at one in years.

Post by SMS
Actually the times they have the shortest lines are the busiest times
when they put on more checkers.

Except at this time of year. My last Costco trip this year was early
November and I won't return until mid-January. Last year (2010) at
this time (early December), I saw every register open and each with a
line greater than 150 feet extending into the Sunnyvale store's aisles.
Needless to say I just left abandoning my cart without buying anything.

Post by SMS
You also have to learn to size up customers when selection which line to
get in. Profile which customers are most likely to pay with a check or
cash, which takes longer than a credit card. Watch out for customers
that have no basket and that keep looking back because they are often
waiting for someone with a huge load of stuff that they will allow to
cut in line (a single line, with rails so no cutting with baskets would
be possible, would solve this problem, though hand carried items could
still be carried in).

Good points but not always possible. Entering the store at 8:20pm
still works best for me at the Sunnyvale and Coleman Ave Costcos;
Mountain View has really bad parking so I've been there only twice and
never again but the one in Foster City (when I worked in San Mateo) is
really good with plenty of parking spaces. Redwood City Costco has
really bad parking and it's difficult to get there for me.

[Thad Floryan]

Post by SMS

Post by Thad Floryan
Costco's checkers would get fired within their first 5 minutes
working in such a fast-paced environment because they're too slow
which is why I don't buy any refrigerated or frozen food at Costco
with one pre-planned exception: entering the store at 8:20pm knowing
in advance where everything I want is located, getting it, and then
checking-out with no waiting. With that written, Costco is not the
place to be shopping between mid-November and December 31.

Bring an insulated bag with you. If possible put some ice in it. They
sell them for $6 at Costco.

That kind of kills any savings shopping at Costco.

Biggest problem I've had with Costco is stocking longevity.

What that means is they'll sometimes get a great product, I'll
try it, will be able to buy it one more time, and then it's
discontinued. This has happened time and time again with some
truly great food products which I later learned were overruns
of airlines' 1st class food services.

To avoid future disappointment I just don't buy any food products
at Costco anymore and stick with Andronico's, Draeger, Lucky
and Safeway which are all within 1/4 to 2 miles of my home -- between
those four I can get everything I want.

There's a TJ about 3 walking minutes from my home but one risks one's
life shopping at any TJs due to all the distracted drivers texting in
every TJ's parking area (Los Altos, Mountain View, San Mateo, etc.).
I'm not the only one with that observation:

<http://blogs.sfweekly.com/foodie/2011/01/why_everyone_at_trader_joes_hates_you.php>
"
" Every Trader Joe's parking lot everywhere is an effed-up jungle from hell."

The San Mateo TJ was about 200 yards from my office and I could see
the effed-up jungle from hell traffic there from my desk through the window.

Besides, TJ's produce is shit (almost always beyond expiration) and
they, too, frequently don't restock good items I've liked so I haven't
shopped at one in years.

Post by SMS
Actually the times they have the shortest lines are the busiest times
when they put on more checkers.

Except at this time of year. My last Costco trip this year was early
November and I won't return until mid-January. Last year (2010) at
this time (early December), I saw every register open and each with a
line greater than 150 feet extending into the Sunnyvale store's aisles.
Needless to say I just left abandoning my cart without buying anything.

Post by SMS
You also have to learn to size up customers when selection which line to
get in. Profile which customers are most likely to pay with a check or
cash, which takes longer than a credit card. Watch out for customers
that have no basket and that keep looking back because they are often
waiting for someone with a huge load of stuff that they will allow to
cut in line (a single line, with rails so no cutting with baskets would
be possible, would solve this problem, though hand carried items could
still be carried in).

Good points but not always possible. Entering the store at 8:20pm
still works best for me at the Sunnyvale and Coleman Ave Costcos;
Mountain View has really bad parking so I've been there only twice and
never again but the one in Foster City (when I worked in San Mateo) is
really good with plenty of parking spaces. Redwood City Costco has
really bad parking and it's difficult to get there.


.

[JC Dill]

Post by Thad Floryan
Good points but not always possible. Entering the store at 8:20pm
still works best for me at the Sunnyvale and Coleman Ave Costcos;

It is surprisingly easy to get in and out of almost any Costco in just a
few minutes if you shop Friday at 5 pm. Nobody wants to do a big Costco
shopping on a Friday night, and businesses don't do their big shopping
runs at that time either. Other shopper's carts are mostly empty,
everyone is just picking up a few things for dinner or the weekend,
often you can go right up to the belt and load while the previous person
is checking out, no "line" to wait in.

Post by Thad Floryan
Mountain View has really bad parking so I've been there only twice and
never again but the one in Foster City (when I worked in San Mateo) is
really good with plenty of parking spaces. Redwood City Costco has
really bad parking and it's difficult to get there.

I've never had any problem parking at the Mountain View Costco, there's
always room over by the Krispy Kreme. And I take it you haven't been to
the RWC one since they remodeled. They were closed for a while,
reopened with a new parking lot and gas station. Plenty of parking, I
find it easier to park in the lot in front of OSH and walk to Costco, it
takes maybe ~20 seconds extra to walk, faster than weaving thru the lot
looking for a space.

jc

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by JC Dill
I've never had any problem parking at the Mountain View Costco, there's
always room over by the Krispy Kreme.

The problem with the Mountain View Costco parking lot is not finding a
parking space. There are plenty of parking spaces if you know where to look.

The main problem with the Mountain View Costco parking lot is trying to
leave it. It's often gridlocked caused by clueless or thoughtless drivers.

Also the two main exits from the parking lot are often backed up.

(Fortunately the third entrance/exit – between the McDonald's & Krispy Kreme
– usually isn't. But shhhhh, don't tell that to anyone.)


- Peter

[SMS]

Post by Peter Lawrence
(Fortunately the third entrance/exit – between the McDonald's & Krispy
Kreme – usually isn't. But shhhhh, don't tell that to anyone.)

Thank goodness few people read Usenet anymore.

[SMS]

Post by Thad Floryan

Post by SMS

Post by Thad Floryan
Costco's checkers would get fired within their first 5 minutes
working in such a fast-paced environment because they're too slow
which is why I don't buy any refrigerated or frozen food at Costco
with one pre-planned exception: entering the store at 8:20pm knowing
in advance where everything I want is located, getting it, and then
checking-out with no waiting. With that written, Costco is not the
place to be shopping between mid-November and December 31.

Bring an insulated bag with you. If possible put some ice in it. They
sell them for $6 at Costco.

That kind of kills any savings shopping at Costco.

You mean a one time cost of $6 wipes out the enormous savings on many of
their refrigerated or frozen items? Unlikely. Costco has many items that
are so much less expensive than other stores that if not for Costco many
people would simply not purchase the item at all.

[Charles Ameson]

Post by SMS

Post by Thad Floryan

Post by SMS

Post by Thad Floryan
Costco's checkers would get fired within their first 5 minutes
working in such a fast-paced environment because they're too slow
which is why I don't buy any refrigerated or frozen food at Costco
with one pre-planned exception: entering the store at 8:20pm knowing
in advance where everything I want is located, getting it, and then
checking-out with no waiting. With that written, Costco is not the
place to be shopping between mid-November and December 31.

Bring an insulated bag with you. If possible put some ice in it. They
sell them for $6 at Costco.

That kind of kills any savings shopping at Costco.

You mean a one time cost of $6 wipes out the enormous savings on many of
their refrigerated or frozen items? Unlikely. Costco has many items that
are so much less expensive than other stores that if not for Costco many
people would simply not purchase the item at all.

For me, the savings get killed because even though that gallon jar of
Cheez-Wiz and the 5-gallon bucket of pickles are relatively cheap, I
end up tossing much of it because it spoils or I'm just sick of it
before I can eat it all.

[Thad Floryan]

Post by Charles Ameson
[...]
For me, the savings get killed because even though that gallon jar of
Cheez-Wiz and the 5-gallon bucket of pickles are relatively cheap, I
end up tossing much of it because it spoils or I'm just sick of it
before I can eat it all.

I agree. As much as I enjoy nibbling on cashews and sipping Madeira while
reading a book, the smallest cashew container is so large the nuts go stale
before I can consume them all.

For me the big savings are with electronics, motor oil (Mobil 1 synthetic
(yes, I have ramps and change oil myself)), Kleenex, Bounty, Mexican
Coca-Cola in bottles, printer paper (not inkjet inks -- Fry's is best for
that, and Newegg for HP toners), the occasional new tools (e.g., the UV
inspection lamp kits (I bought 4), the IR thermometers (great for kitchen
use, too, etc.), batteries. wine, etc.

Here's a pic of the IR thermometers that were really a bargain at Costco
(but, again, were only available once for about 2-3 days):

<Loading Image...>
<Loading Image...>
<Loading Image...>

The above was an experiment to see if I could measure temperature through
glass; I could not, most glass is opaque to IR.

The UV kits are great for examining paper currency and the new California
drivers licenses in addition to novelty usage; the UV source is LED. The
kits were only available at Costco for less than a week.

[David Kaye]

Post by Thad Floryan
I agree. As much as I enjoy nibbling on cashews and sipping Madeira while
reading a book, the smallest cashew container is so large the nuts go stale
before I can consume them all.

This points up the false value of buying at a warehouse store. Most people
could probably live in much smaller homes (and pay less rent/mortgage)
except that they have their homes filled with excess things they bought on
sale and are storing.

I see this all the time in doing my tech support business. One customer has
a 4-bedroom house and what was once one bedroom is her "pantry", wherein you
can find dozens of rolls of toilet paper, cases of catsup, oh, and ink
cartridges for printers she hasn't owned in years.

In fact, in the years since starting this business I have wondered about the
sanity of many customers I've had. So many of them are packrats holding
onto totally useless stuff. With the women it's food and arts/crafts
trinkets. With the men it's magazines and totally useless computer and
electronic hardware that nobody's used in years. IEEE-488 disk drives
anyone?

[SMS]

Post by David Kaye
In fact, in the years since starting this business I have wondered about the
sanity of many customers I've had. So many of them are packrats holding
onto totally useless stuff. With the women it's food and arts/crafts
trinkets. With the men it's magazines and totally useless computer and
electronic hardware that nobody's used in years. IEEE-488 disk drives
anyone?

Wow, when were you at my house? Would you like a daisy wheel printer?
It's got sentimental value to me so I keep it, it's the first product I
worked on that made it to market (and was very successful).

The arts and crafts stuff and wrapping paper drives me nuts. I try to
explain that it's better to let the stores stock it and just buy it when
you need it, and that it's perpetually on sale. So it goes into storage
in the garage or shed, and then it gets requested 30 seconds before it's
absolutely needed.

[Jeff Sutter]

I agree.  As much as I enjoy nibbling on cashews and sipping Madeira while
reading a book, the smallest cashew container is so large the nuts go stale
before I can consume them all.

This points up the false value of buying at a warehouse store.  Most people
could probably live in much smaller homes (and pay less rent/mortgage)
except that they have their homes filled with excess things they bought on
sale and are storing.

Most people could, indeed, live in smaller homes with less stuff. But
to suggest that people could actually *buy* smaller homes, and pay
less, ignores the reality of the housing market. Marginal differences
in square footage don't much influence a home's purchase price in a
given neighborhood.

It is a lot easier to buy more house than one "needs" than buy too
little and find out too late.
Rightsizing your home every few years as your life changes would incur
incredible overhead for most people.

And if you're not single, space management usually gets much more
complex.

With the men it's magazines and totally useless computer and
electronic hardware that nobody's used in years.  IEEE-488 disk drives anyone?

HP, or Commodore?
If the latter, they've actually been held long enough to regain some
value.

[David Kaye]

Post by Jeff Sutter
Most people could, indeed, live in smaller homes with less stuff. But
to suggest that people could actually *buy* smaller homes, and pay
less, ignores the reality of the housing market. Marginal differences
in square footage don't much influence a home's purchase price in a
given neighborhood.

The cost of a home is more than the purchase price. It is the property tax,
which is affected by the number of bedrooms. It's the cost of heating.
It's the cost of fixing the roof, of painting, and of fixing plumbing. A
smaller home reduces the costs of all of these. I've owned a couple homes
in my life. I could barely afford to heat the larger one (a 4-bedroom) in
the winter.

Post by Jeff Sutter
HP, or Commodore?
If the latter, they've actually been held long enough to regain some
value.

In this case it was HP.

[Steve Fenwick]

Post by David Kaye

Post by Jeff Sutter
Most people could, indeed, live in smaller homes with less stuff. But
to suggest that people could actually *buy* smaller homes, and pay
less, ignores the reality of the housing market. Marginal differences
in square footage don't much influence a home's purchase price in a
given neighborhood.

The cost of a home is more than the purchase price. It is the property tax,
which is affected by the number of bedrooms. It's the cost of heating.
It's the cost of fixing the roof, of painting, and of fixing plumbing. A
smaller home reduces the costs of all of these. I've owned a couple homes
in my life. I could barely afford to heat the larger one (a 4-bedroom) in
the winter.

Sadly, a prominent metric now used by real estate agents is cost per
square foot, as though that's a useful comparison for two properties. I
suspect it's there for those who can't look at more than one factor for
multiple properties.

Steve

[sms88]

Post by David Kaye
The cost of a home is more than the purchase price. It is the property tax,
which is affected by the number of bedrooms.

Huh?

[sms88]

Post by Jeff Sutter
HP, or Commodore?
If the latter, they've actually been held long enough to regain some
value.

Unlikely as there were so many of them. I donated my old computer with
floppy drives to a group collecting California manufacturer computer
hardware. Don't know where it is now, but the actual one I donated can
be seen here <http://www.1000bit.it/scheda.asp?id=1014>.

[SMS]

Post by Thad Floryan
For me the big savings are with electronics, motor oil (Mobil 1 synthetic
(yes, I have ramps and change oil myself)),

I find Walmart to be cheaper for oil, including synthetic. There isn't
one near me, but if I'm in an area with one I pick some up if it's
almost time for an oil change. They sell oil in the 5 quart jugs which
is cheaper than 1 quart bottle.

Kleenex, Bounty, Mexican

Post by Thad Floryan
Coca-Cola in bottles, printer paper (not inkjet inks -- Fry's is best for
that, and Newegg for HP toners),

The best place, by far, for toner cartridges and ink cartridges is
Monoprice.com. <http://www.monoprice.com/home/find_toner.asp>

Just bought two toner cartridges for my HP laser printer. $19.85 each. I
also order ink cartridges from them, much cheaper than getting them
refilled at Costco, and they work better than refills. Less than $5 each.

Shipping is inexpensive (less than $5) and that's for next day shipping.

[JC Dill]

printer paper (not inkjet inks -- Fry's is best for that,

I use their ink refill service for my HP deskjet. Drop off the empties
at the photo desk, prepay for refilling, they are ready in about an
hour, pickup at photo without having to wait in the regular checkout
line. I usually drop off without buying anything else then pickup at a
later date as I have extra ink, so I'm just getting the "old empties"
topped up for later use.

jc

[SMS]

printer paper (not inkjet inks -- Fry's is best for that,

I use their ink refill service for my HP deskjet. Drop off the empties
at the photo desk, prepay for refilling, they are ready in about an
hour, pickup at photo without having to wait in the regular checkout
line. I usually drop off without buying anything else then pickup at a
later date as I have extra ink, so I'm just getting the "old empties"
topped up for later use.

I've had very mixed results with refills. Walgreen's is hopeless, they
will almost always claim that the cartridge is not refillable, but
Costco can almost always fill them. But they don't seem to last as long.

Cartridge World's will swap cartridges with a refilled one, but it's
expensive.

Monoprice.com is now where I now buy refilled cartridges. They are
cheaper than getting them refilled at any store, and so far they have
worked well.

I use HP96 and HP97 on my Officejet. $4.65 for black, $5.12 for color,
in single quantities.

[Thad Floryan]

Post by SMS

printer paper (not inkjet inks -- Fry's is best for that,

I use their ink refill service for my HP deskjet. Drop off the empties
at the photo desk, prepay for refilling, they are ready in about an
hour, pickup at photo without having to wait in the regular checkout
line. I usually drop off without buying anything else then pickup at a
later date as I have extra ink, so I'm just getting the "old empties"
topped up for later use.

I've had very mixed results with refills. Walgreen's is hopeless, they
will almost always claim that the cartridge is not refillable, but
Costco can almost always fill them. But they don't seem to last as long.
Cartridge World's will swap cartridges with a refilled one, but it's
expensive.
Monoprice.com is now where I now buy refilled cartridges. They are
cheaper than getting them refilled at any store, and so far they have
worked well.
I use HP96 and HP97 on my Officejet. $4.65 for black, $5.12 for color,
in single quantities.

I gave up on HP and Lexmark inkjets ages ago because:

1. ink would dry very quickly and thus be wasted,
2. need to throw-away a cartridge even if only one of the 3 inks
has been used up, and
3. the inks were too (relatively) expensive

I now only use Canon PIXMA printers whose inks never dry out and even
after, say, 6-months non-use are as instantly fresh as brand new with
perfect color retention, and each cartridge is just one color -- mine
uses six of the size 6 cartridges which I find are reasonably priced
at Fry's. My next printer (if I ever need another color one) will be
another PIXMA using 8 (or more) cartridges since I do a lot of photo
work on very heavy glossy Kodak inkjet paper stock of which I have a
[probably] 10-year supply on hand.

I will never use a refilled toner cartridge for my HP 4050 and P2015bn
Laserjet printers; I have seen too many problems over the years at
clients who were such cheap shits they wouldn't buy "correct" toner and
they got what they paid for -- junk.

[sms88]

Post by Thad Floryan

Post by SMS

printer paper (not inkjet inks -- Fry's is best for that,

I use their ink refill service for my HP deskjet. Drop off the empties
at the photo desk, prepay for refilling, they are ready in about an
hour, pickup at photo without having to wait in the regular checkout
line. I usually drop off without buying anything else then pickup at a
later date as I have extra ink, so I'm just getting the "old empties"
topped up for later use.

I've had very mixed results with refills. Walgreen's is hopeless, they
will almost always claim that the cartridge is not refillable, but
Costco can almost always fill them. But they don't seem to last as long.
Cartridge World's will swap cartridges with a refilled one, but it's
expensive.
Monoprice.com is now where I now buy refilled cartridges. They are
cheaper than getting them refilled at any store, and so far they have
worked well.
I use HP96 and HP97 on my Officejet. $4.65 for black, $5.12 for color,
in single quantities.

1. ink would dry very quickly and thus be wasted,
2. need to throw-away a cartridge even if only one of the 3 inks
has been used up, and
3. the inks were too (relatively) expensive
I now only use Canon PIXMA printers whose inks never dry out and even
after, say, 6-months non-use are as instantly fresh as brand new with
perfect color retention, and each cartridge is just one color -- mine
uses six of the size 6 cartridges which I find are reasonably priced
at Fry's. My next printer (if I ever need another color one) will be
another PIXMA using 8 (or more) cartridges since I do a lot of photo
work on very heavy glossy Kodak inkjet paper stock of which I have a
[probably] 10-year supply on hand.

I avoid Canon printers because so many people with them have had print
head failures which renders the printer useless. With HP, you
essentially get a new print head with each ink cartridge.

The print engines in HP printers are also like that, the cartridge
contains the drum so you get a new (or refinished) drum with each
cartridge, not just toner.

[Thad Floryan]

Post by sms88

Post by Thad Floryan
[...]
1. ink would dry very quickly and thus be wasted,
2. need to throw-away a cartridge even if only one of the 3 inks
has been used up, and
3. the inks were too (relatively) expensive
I now only use Canon PIXMA printers whose inks never dry out and even
after, say, 6-months non-use are as instantly fresh as brand new with
perfect color retention, and each cartridge is just one color -- mine
uses six of the size 6 cartridges which I find are reasonably priced
at Fry's. My next printer (if I ever need another color one) will be
another PIXMA using 8 (or more) cartridges since I do a lot of photo
work on very heavy glossy Kodak inkjet paper stock of which I have a
[probably] 10-year supply on hand.

I avoid Canon printers because so many people with them have had print
head failures which renders the printer useless. With HP, you
essentially get a new print head with each ink cartridge.

But still the HP ink dries in the cartridge quickly and the issue of
throwing-away a 3-ink cartridge due to one color being depleted is
simply insane. And for those who think they're saving by refilling the
HP cartridges, they're not getting a "new" print head in the process.

My Canon PIXMA has worked fine for years and has printed 10000s of
super-quality photo prints and the inks never dry in the cartridges
(and, as I wrote above, each cartridge has only one color so one only
needs to buy what's truly depleted vs. the HP scenario where a lot of
ink is simply wasted and never used). If people are having problems
then I suspect they're mishandling the printers; I've seen many people
do just that with their Canon inkjets (and I've been the very happy
recipient of many free size 6 cartridges from them!).

Post by sms88
The print engines in HP printers are also like that, the cartridge
contains the drum so you get a new (or refinished) drum with each
cartridge, not just toner.

Which is why I only buy new HP toners for my two LaserJets. And the
toners typically go to 10,000 pages for both my LaserJet 4050n and
P2015dn and last for years.

[jcdill]

Post by Thad Floryan
And for those who think they're saving by refilling the
HP cartridges, they're not getting a "new" print head in the process.

Refilled cartridges with old print heads work fine for daily printing,
printing out receipts, webpages, driving directions, shopping lists,
etc. I have my photos professionally printed by Bay Photo.

jc

[SMS]

Post by jcdill

Post by Thad Floryan
And for those who think they're saving by refilling the
HP cartridges, they're not getting a "new" print head in the process.

Refilled cartridges with old print heads work fine for daily printing,
printing out receipts, webpages, driving directions, shopping lists,
etc. I have my photos professionally printed by Bay Photo.

A new print head in an ink jet cartridge is only important if the old
head is bad. The problem with printers where the print head is separate
from the ink is that once the print head goes bad the printer is
essentially history. Canon has a long history of clogged print heads.
There are various procedures for trying to salvage the print head, such
as soaking it in solvent.

For photos, it would be tough to print photos as cheaply and as high
quality as even low-cost print services such as Costco when you
calculate the cost of ink and paper.

[Thad Floryan]

Post by SMS

Post by jcdill

Post by Thad Floryan
And for those who think they're saving by refilling the
HP cartridges, they're not getting a "new" print head in the process.

Refilled cartridges with old print heads work fine for daily printing,
printing out receipts, webpages, driving directions, shopping lists,
etc. I have my photos professionally printed by Bay Photo.

A new print head in an ink jet cartridge is only important if the old
head is bad. The problem with printers where the print head is separate
from the ink is that once the print head goes bad the printer is
essentially history. Canon has a long history of clogged print heads.

So, what causes the Canon print head to gp bad?

My experience is excellent with Canon, but colleagues, whom I know
are sloppy in just about everything they do (e.g., CDs/DVDs on the
floor to be stepped-on or rolled over by chairs, tools misplaced, etc.)
do have problems [not only with Canon but everything they touch].

I believe it to be a people problem not a general manufacturer
problem from my observations.

Things last me a long time because I take care of whatever I buy.
I've only had 4 cars since I bought my first one in 1960 (though I
was driving before then).

Post by SMS
[...]
For photos, it would be tough to print photos as cheaply and as high
quality as even low-cost print services such as Costco when you
calculate the cost of ink and paper.

Not at 4am in the morning it doesn't. :-)

[jcdill]

Post by Thad Floryan

Post by SMS
For photos, it would be tough to print photos as cheaply and as high
quality as even low-cost print services such as Costco when you
calculate the cost of ink and paper.

Not at 4am in the morning it doesn't. :-)

At 4 am you can upload photos to Costco's photo center online and place
your order, then select to pickup your photos at your nearest Costco.
Your order is usually ready[1] for pickup by the time they open the
doors for business in the morning. (They start printing at least 1 hour
before the store opens for business, to get caught up on the backlog
from orders that came in overnight.) This covers 99% of the cases when
someone needs prints "right away". If you *really* need to produce
photo prints faster than that (e.g. you "need" to have prints in-hand at
4 am), likely the ink refill cost isn't a major factor in your printer
purchase decision, and if it is then you are probably looking at a
continuous ink system for a prosumer quality printer.

jc

[1] They do get backed-up when people are ordering Christmas cards. If
they have a dozen orders for Christmas cards in quantities of ~500 cards
per order, it can result in a bit of a backup and you might have to wait
a few extra hours before your prints are ready. I've only had this
happen once. I know now to plan ahead if I'm putting in a Costco order
in December.

[sms88]

Post by jcdill

Post by SMS
For photos, it would be tough to print photos as cheaply and as high
quality as even low-cost print services such as Costco when you
calculate the cost of ink and paper.

Not at 4am in the morning it doesn't. :-)

At 4 am you can upload photos to Costco's photo center online and place
your order, then select to pickup your photos at your nearest Costco.

Walgreen's is also good if you don't need professional quality prints.

I can send them to the Walgreen's 1/2 mile away and by the time I walk
there the photos are usually ready. But not a 4 a.m.. I don't know it
the 24 hour Walgreen's keep someone in photo 24 hours.

[(null)]

Post by sms88
I can send them to the Walgreen's 1/2 mile away and by the time I walk
there the photos are usually ready. But not a 4 a.m.. I don't know it
the 24 hour Walgreen's keep someone in photo 24 hours.

In addition to the lab, don't they also have self-serve kiosks with
automated photo printer? No photo guy needed.

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by Charles Ameson
For me, the savings get killed because even though that gallon jar of
Cheez-Wiz and the 5-gallon bucket of pickles are relatively cheap, I
end up tossing much of it because it spoils or I'm just sick of it
before I can eat it all.

Not everything that Costco sells is suitable for purchase by single or
two-persons households. But many things are. Just avoid purchasing jumbo
sized packages of perishable products at Costco and you'll do fine.


- Peter

[SMS]

On 12/10/2011 9:56 PM, Charles Ameson wrote:

<snip>

Post by Charles Ameson
For me, the savings get killed because even though that gallon jar of
Cheez-Wiz and the 5-gallon bucket of pickles are relatively cheap, I
end up tossing much of it because it spoils or I'm just sick of it
before I can eat it all.

Actually Costco has been very good about their packaging lately. They
will bundle a quantity of smaller containers, rather than a single huge
container.

In any case, both pickles and Cheez-Wiz have an extremely long shelf
life once opened. If it's a true non-frozen perishable then you have to
be careful.

[Thad Floryan]

Post by SMS

Post by Thad Floryan

Post by SMS

Post by Thad Floryan
Costco's checkers would get fired within their first 5 minutes
working in such a fast-paced environment because they're too slow
which is why I don't buy any refrigerated or frozen food at Costco
with one pre-planned exception: entering the store at 8:20pm knowing
in advance where everything I want is located, getting it, and then
checking-out with no waiting. With that written, Costco is not the
place to be shopping between mid-November and December 31.

Bring an insulated bag with you. If possible put some ice in it. They
sell them for $6 at Costco.

That kind of kills any savings shopping at Costco.

You mean a one time cost of $6 wipes out the enormous savings on many of
their refrigerated or frozen items? Unlikely. Costco has many items that
are so much less expensive than other stores that if not for Costco many
people would simply not purchase the item at all.

Sorry, I misunderstood; I thought you wrote the ice was selling for $6
(which isn't a stretch when I look at ice bag pricing at Lucky, Safeway.
et al).

I'll look for insulated bags in January; thanks for the tip!

[SMS]

Post by Thad Floryan
Sorry, I misunderstood; I thought you wrote the ice was selling for $6
(which isn't a stretch when I look at ice bag pricing at Lucky, Safeway.
et al).

It's amazing about ice prices. a Valero station not far from me
(Prospect and Saratoga-Sunnyvale) sells ice for 99¢ a bag, so if I need
ice for a party that's where I go, though they tend to sell out on
holidays like fourth of July. They refill propane tanks (to 20#, not 15#
like the exchange tanks). He also sells espresso, ice cream, and has a
deli, as well as a car wash and a test-only smog station.

Some Costcos sell ice, but I haven't seen that at Bay Area stores.

[Anthony]

Post by Thad Floryan

Post by SMS

Post by Thad Floryan

Post by SMS

Post by Thad Floryan
Costco's checkers would get fired within their first 5 minutes
working in such a fast-paced environment because they're too slow
which is why I don't buy any refrigerated or frozen food at Costco
with one pre-planned exception: entering the store at 8:20pm knowing
in advance where everything I want is located, getting it, and then
checking-out with no waiting. With that written, Costco is not the
place to be shopping between mid-November and December 31.

Bring an insulated bag with you. If possible put some ice in it. They
sell them for $6 at Costco.

That kind of kills any savings shopping at Costco.

You mean a one time cost of $6 wipes out the enormous savings on many of
their refrigerated or frozen items? Unlikely. Costco has many items that
are so much less expensive than other stores that if not for Costco many
people would simply not purchase the item at all.

Sorry, I misunderstood; I thought you wrote the ice was selling for $6
(which isn't a stretch when I look at ice bag pricing at Lucky, Safeway.
et al).
I'll look for insulated bags in January; thanks for the tip!

Or you could just take an ice chest and keep it in the car while you're
in the store...

[Thad Floryan]

Post by Anthony
[...]
Or you could just take an ice chest and keep it in the car while you're
in the store...

Hmmm, excellent suggestion! Thinking back to ages ago, my Mom used to
do that, and I recall she also used the refreezable packets/containers
in lieu of actual ice because she'd shop at up to 4 markets in a day.

Thank you!

[Peter Lawrence]

You also have to learn to size up customers when selection which line to get
in. Profile which customers are most likely to pay with a check or cash,
which takes longer than a credit card. Watch out for customers that have no
basket and that keep looking back because they are often waiting for someone
with a huge load of stuff that they will allow to cut in line.

Actually, in my experience these people who are acting as placeholders
haven't been that bad for several reasons. First, often times the person
they're waiting for doesn't arrive before it's their turn to place stuff on
the conveyor belt, so they tend to let other customers go ahead of them.

Second, in my experience, the person they're waiting for usually does *not*
have a huge load. Again, in my experience, it's usually only a relative
modest amount of items in their shopping cart.

Third, these people tend to be very time conscious and efficient in their
actions. They usually don't twiddle twaddle at the checkout counter unlike
some other less organized customers. They tend to be in a hurry, so they're
usually very quick in paying for their stuff and moving on.

But I agree it's important to size up the customers that are ahead of you.

Beside avoiding the obvious (customers with shopping cart(s) full of many
different items), I tend stay clear of lines with three or more people per
one shopping cart. If you see three (or more) adults and just one shopping
cart, you can be rest assured it's going to take three times as long for
them to pay the cashier, mainly because they'll spend more time talking to
each other than interacting with the cashier.

Also avoid lines with elderly (70 years or older) couples, especially those
(usually Asian) without a strong command of the English language. It
usually takes them three or four times longer to pay, than other people.


- Peter

[Anthony]

Post by Peter Lawrence
Also avoid lines with elderly (70 years or older) couples, especially
those (usually Asian) without a strong command of the English language.
It usually takes them three or four times longer to pay, than other people.

Don't forget the dinosaurs that are holding or displaying an actual
checkbook.

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by Thad Floryan
I gave Randy the idea for the single line
checkout queue based on how queuing was implemented in military
commissaries: first in, first out; I did the same thing with my
bank but never could get Costco (formerly Price Club) to do it.

The best implementation of this queue strategy was at my undergraduate
university during class registration day.

Their added twist to this single queue methodology? They would actually
have one student stand behind each student that was being helped by a registrar.

That way there was very minimal delay between the time a registrar finished
helping one student and started helping the next one in line. (No need to
wait for a student to walk down the long line of registrars to get to the
next available one.)


- Peter

[d***@gmail.com]

Post by Thad Floryan
U.S. Electronics

It was on El Camino Way, north of Meadow, where Palo Alto Commons is now.

[Jeff Liebermann]

Post by Glenn Geller
Here an alphabetical list of some Northern California tech and electronics stores.
For historical interest, I threw in some defunct stores.
The list is a work in progress. Which stores might I add or delete?

Nice list and thanks. I assume you mean retail stores. Some of the
following are marginal additions. You decide.

Ham Radio Outlet (Sunnyvale)
http://www.hamradio.com

Computer Literacy Bookshop (Sunnyvale, San Jose, Santa Clara)
(defunct)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Literacy_Bookshops

Graybar (San Jose, Hayward, San Francisco, Sacramento, etc)
http://www.graybar.com

Gray Bears Computer Recycling (Santa Cruz)
http://www.greybears.org/thrift-store/grey-bears-computer-store/

Marvac Electronics (Marina) (defunct)
http://www.marvac.com

[David Kaye]

Post by Glenn Geller
Here an alphabetical list of some Northern California tech and electronics
stores. For
historical interest, I threw in some defunct stores.

Uh, how defunct do you want to get? Before Radio Shack took over the world
every town of size had one or two electronics stores. Radio Shack was a
category killer of the mom'n'pop electronics store.

Hayward had Hayward Electronics on Mission Blvd and Main Electronics on Main
Street. I bought a small AM transmitter (aka "phono oscillator"), recording
tape, relays, switches, etc.

Oakland had Godbout Electronics and Airport something, I forget. At Godbout
I bought a keyboard for a computer and a printer baffle as I recall. At the
Airport store I think I bought some photocells and a small experimenter
power supply.

San Leandro had something I think it was called Davis Electronics. Fremont
had something but I never went there.

In short there must have been dozens of electronics stores around the Bay
Area in ye olden days.

[SMS]

Post by David Kaye

Post by Glenn Geller
Here an alphabetical list of some Northern California tech and electronics
stores. For
historical interest, I threw in some defunct stores.

Uh, how defunct do you want to get? Before Radio Shack took over the world
every town of size had one or two electronics stores. Radio Shack was a
category killer of the mom'n'pop electronics store.
Hayward had Hayward Electronics on Mission Blvd and Main Electronics on Main
Street. I bought a small AM transmitter (aka "phono oscillator"), recording
tape, relays, switches, etc.
Oakland had Godbout Electronics and Airport something, I forget. At Godbout
I bought a keyboard for a computer and a printer baffle as I recall. At the
Airport store I think I bought some photocells and a small experimenter
power supply.

I didn't realize that Bill Godbout was selling that sort of stuff, I
thought that he was doing S100 based systems.

I would blame Fry's more than Radio Shack, at least in the south bay and
Peninsula, since in the early days Fry's sold a lot of electronic
components, a category that they don't bother much with today. But it
was more than that. It was the switch to cable and satellite TV from
broadcast TV. It was the loss of interest in amateur radio as cell
phones proliferated. It was the end of electronic kits as it became too
difficult to deal with surface mount ICs. It was the end of magnetic
tape and vinyl. It was everything being designed and manufactured in a
way that increased reliability and decreased the value of repairing
something that broke.

Nowadays I order most stuff from All Electronics in Southern California,
or MPJA in Florida. Halted is still good for bits and pieces of
hardware, but it's disorganized and many items are ridiculously priced.

It's interesting that Radio Shack is getting back into some hobbyist
stuff by selling Arduino based products.

[David Kaye]

Post by SMS
I didn't realize that Bill Godbout was selling that sort of stuff, I
thought that he was doing S100 based systems.

Nope, I'm wrong on that. Godbout was CompuPro, an s100 computer to be sure.
I'm mis-remembering.

Post by SMS
I would blame Fry's more than Radio Shack, at least in the south bay and
Peninsula, since in the early days Fry's sold a lot of electronic
components, a category that they don't bother much with today.

No, it was Radio Shack that killed the mom'n'pop electronics store. Used to
be only 3 Radio Shack stores, 2 in Boston and 1 in San Leandro at Bayfair.
That was it. They specialized in ham and some CB gear. They were like the
mom'n'pops except that they also did mail order.

When Tandy took over RS in 1963 and began franchising, the mom'n'pop stores
began disappearing because they simply could not compete on price.

In order to bring costs down, Lewis Kornfeld, the RS CEO, decided to
manufacture the high-margin items (CB radios, stereos, hi-fi speakers, etc)
in-house or contract for their manufacture. This left the mom'n'pops
selling only low-profit items. (Who was going to buy a $300 Regency CB when
they could buy a $99 Realistic CB?) Most of the mom'n'pops went out of
business by the end of the 1960s.

Post by SMS
It's interesting that Radio Shack is getting back into some hobbyist stuff
by selling Arduino based products.

After Kornfeld left as CEO the innovation went with him. Used to be that
people would anxiously go to their local RS store for new, exciting
products: scanners, the Weather Cube weather-only radio, the odd
flashlights, the small kitchen stereos, etc. Then they stopped innovating
and their consumer merchandise was no different than what you could buy at
Best Buy. The hobbyist market is really the only arena where RS has no
significant competition.

[David Kaye]

Post by David Kaye
No, it was Radio Shack that killed the mom'n'pop electronics store. Used
to be only 3 Radio Shack stores, 2 in Boston and 1 in San Leandro at
Bayfair. That was it. They specialized in ham and some CB gear. They
were like the mom'n'pops except that they also did mail order.

Interesting. I distinctly remember Radio Shack catalogs showing 2 Boston
stores and 1 San Leandro store, but according to a RS history website there
were 7 stores by the time Tandy bought the company. But I'm correct in that
RS's order of business was to cut costs by doing and/or contracting out
manufacturing of its highest margin items.

[SMS]

Post by David Kaye
After Kornfeld left as CEO the innovation went with him. Used to be that
people would anxiously go to their local RS store for new, exciting
products: scanners, the Weather Cube weather-only radio, the odd
flashlights, the small kitchen stereos, etc. Then they stopped innovating
and their consumer merchandise was no different than what you could buy at
Best Buy. The hobbyist market is really the only arena where RS has no
significant competition.

The two great marketing ideas that Radio Shack came up with were the
catalogs, even though few people were ordering by mail after they opened
so many stores, and the Battery of the Month card. The latter was the a
brilliant way to get people into your store once a month. I always got
the 9V!

What's interesting is that so many of the older Radio Shack stores are
still there, while the mall stores are mostly gone. In my area we had
Radio Shacks at Vallco, Westgate, and Sunnyvale Town Center--all are
gone but the older stores, close to those malls, are all still in
business. Stanford Shopping Center still has one.

[Peter Lawrence]

What's interesting is that so many of the older Radio Shack stores are still
there, while the mall stores are mostly gone. In my area we had Radio Shacks
at Vallco, Westgate, and Sunnyvale Town Center--all are gone but the older
stores, close to those malls, are all still in business. Stanford Shopping
Center still has one.

There's no Radio Shack in Stanford Shopping Center.

The closest one is at the corner of California Ave. & El Camino Real in Palo
Alto. There is one located in the San Antonio Shopping Center in Mountain
View which is also near to Palo Alto.


- Peter

[SMS]

Post by Peter Lawrence
There's no Radio Shack in Stanford Shopping Center.

You're right, it closed several years ago. My mistake.

[SMS]

Post by David Kaye
No, it was Radio Shack that killed the mom'n'pop electronics store. Used to
be only 3 Radio Shack stores, 2 in Boston and 1 in San Leandro at Bayfair.
That was it. They specialized in ham and some CB gear. They were like the
mom'n'pops except that they also did mail order.

Radio Shack is the only surviving nationwide electronics chain, but
there were at least three others that sold their own private label gear
at good prices in franchised or company owned stores, and that competed
against mom & pop stores. They were Olson Electronics (free pearls),
Lafayette Radio Electronics, and Allied Radio Electronics. These other
chains also were responsible for the loss of mom & pop stores
(especially Lafayette which would sign up mom & pop stores as affiliates
then later open up their own stores in the same area). Of course these
other chains were hurt by Radio Shack as well.

Old Lafayette Radio Ad <http://tinyurl.com/oldlrecat>
Old Olson Catalog Ad: <http://tinyurl.com/oldlolsoncat>

There was also Allied Electronics (prior to their marriage to Radio
Shack) who sold a lot of gear mail order, including the popular Knight
Kit kits which competed with Heathkit. Apparently they also had retail
stores, though I don't recall ever seeing one.

I remember when Radio Shack and Allied Electronics "got married" and
Radio Shack sent out fliers with $1 coupons as a wedding gift to
customers. Alas, like many marriages, it did not last.

I still have my Lafayette chassis punch kit, made by Greenlee I think,
that I used on many projects.

You forgot to mention the Jewish conspiracy:

Lafayette (Abraham Pletman, Olson (Sid Olson), Allied (Simon Wexler),
Radio Shack (Deutschmann brothers).

[David Kaye]

Post by SMS
Lafayette (Abraham Pletman, Olson (Sid Olson), Allied (Simon Wexler),
Radio Shack (Deutschmann brothers).

Dianne Feinstein isn't a Jew by the way. Just so you know....

[Don Freeman]

Post by David Kaye

Post by SMS
Lafayette (Abraham Pletman, Olson (Sid Olson), Allied (Simon Wexler),
Radio Shack (Deutschmann brothers).

Dianne Feinstein isn't a Jew by the way. Just so you know....

And that was relevant to what?

[David Kaye]

Post by Don Freeman
And that was relevant to what?

That just because someone has a "Jewish-sounding" name does not mean they
are Jewish. For the record I am not Jewish, either, though I have a
"Jewish-sounding" name.

I guess it just irks me when someone points out someone's Jewishness when it
comes to business or stardom or Hollywood or whatever. Usually it's a not
well-hidden racist comment implying that Jews are taking over the world of
(fill in the blank).

Why don't people refer to Cher (Cherilyn Sarksian) and her Armenian
background? Nobody talks about the great white Anglo-Saxon Protestant
conspiracy to take over banking.

I see stuff on Wikipedia all the time going on about someone's Jewish
background, but I don't see much about non-Jews and their backgrounds. And
then to read here that the electronics catalog houses were run by Jews,
whether it's true or not, is just uncalled for.

In short, we're all people and we got into the kinds of businesses and
careers we did for whatever reason, family, mentors, happenstance. It
should make no difference what our backgrounds are.

[Don Freeman]

Post by David Kaye

Post by Don Freeman
And that was relevant to what?

That just because someone has a "Jewish-sounding" name does not mean they
are Jewish. For the record I am not Jewish, either, though I have a
"Jewish-sounding" name.

Funny, I get it a bit because of my name, never bothered me.

Post by David Kaye
I guess it just irks me when someone points out someone's Jewishness when it
comes to business or stardom or Hollywood or whatever. Usually it's a not
well-hidden racist comment implying that Jews are taking over the world of
(fill in the blank).

It was quite apparent that the poster you were replying to was being
ironic. But then again you don't seem to miss a chance at getting your
knickers in a twist.

[Travis James]

Post by David Kaye
I see stuff on Wikipedia all the time going on about someone's Jewish
background, but I don't see much about non-Jews and their backgrounds. And
then to read here that the electronics catalog houses were run by Jews,
whether it's true or not, is just uncalled for.

I wish that logic were applied universally about people's background. I
get irritated when criticisms of President Obama, our first partially
black president, are responded as racist. The first woman, first Asian,
first gay, etc., etc. I love the recent story of that labeling absurdity
with the gay softball league that protested the winning team's players
weren't gay enough (or something like that).

[David Kaye]

Post by Travis James
I wish that logic were applied universally about people's background. I
get irritated when criticisms of President Obama, our first partially
black president, are responded as racist. [....]

People, especially "liberals" get really ticked off when I talk about Obama
being white, given that his white heritage is even more blueblooded than
most of us here. After all, via his mother he's related to Sarah Palin,
Rush Limbaugh, George W. Bush, Brad Pitt, and Warren Buffett (Time
Magazine).

I've been very pleased to see all the inter-marrying these last couple
decades and the Census Bureau being forced to make the "race" question
multiple choice.

[Thad Floryan]

Post by David Kaye

Post by SMS
Lafayette (Abraham Pletman, Olson (Sid Olson), Allied (Simon Wexler),
Radio Shack (Deutschmann brothers).

Dianne Feinstein isn't a Jew by the way. Just so you know....

Not that I care, but "Religion = Judaism" per Wikipedia:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianne_Feinstein>

in the right sidebar, next-to-last line, and her birth name is
Dianne Emiel Goldman which doesn't sound Irish to me.

:-)

[SMS]

On 11/29/2011 3:39 PM, Thad Floryan wrote:

<snip>

Post by Thad Floryan
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianne_Feinstein>

There are a lot of people that are Jewish by birth that are completely
non-observant and don't consider themselves Jewish.

Post by Thad Floryan
in the right sidebar, next-to-last line, and her birth name is
Dianne Emiel Goldman which doesn't sound Irish to me.

I was shocked when one of our city council members told me he was
Jewish, because his last name is Mahoney, which is Irish.

[Travis James]

Post by SMS
<snip>

Post by Thad Floryan
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianne_Feinstein>

There are a lot of people that are Jewish by birth that are completely
non-observant and don't consider themselves Jewish.

With respect to radio, Bill Handel on KFI in Los Angeles refers to
himself as Jewish mostly from a cultural,
not religious standpoint. In fact, he's really an atheist (granted, as
portrayed on radio) but observes Jewish traditions and holidays.

[SMS]

Post by Travis James
With respect to radio, Bill Handel on KFI in Los Angeles refers to
himself as Jewish mostly from a cultural,
not religious standpoint. In fact, he's really an atheist (granted, as
portrayed on radio) but observes Jewish traditions and holidays.

You could say the same about a great many Jews. Or Catholics, Mormons,
etc. But probably more about the Jews since a) they have so many
holidays and traditions, and b) they tend to be more highly educated.

[Ron Hardesty]

Post by SMS

Post by Travis James
With respect to radio, Bill Handel on KFI in Los Angeles refers to
himself as Jewish mostly from a cultural,
not religious standpoint. In fact, he's really an atheist (granted, as
portrayed on radio) but observes Jewish traditions and holidays.

You could say the same about a great many Jews. Or Catholics, Mormons,
etc. But probably more about the Jews since a) they have so many
holidays and traditions, and b) they tend to be more highly educated.

Cite for b)?

[SMS]

Post by Ron Hardesty

Post by SMS
You could say the same about a great many Jews. Or Catholics, Mormons,
etc. But probably more about the Jews since a) they have so many
holidays and traditions, and b) they tend to be more highly educated.

Cite for b)?

<http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/table-education-by-tradition.pdf>

Only Hindu have a higher level of education.

The full study is at
<http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/report-religious-landscape-study-full.pdf>

[Ron Hardesty]

Post by SMS

Post by Ron Hardesty

Post by SMS
You could say the same about a great many Jews. Or Catholics, Mormons,
etc. But probably more about the Jews since a) they have so many
holidays and traditions, and b) they tend to be more highly educated.

Cite for b)?

<http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/table-education-by-tradition.pdf>
Only Hindu have a higher level of education.
The full study is at
<http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/report-religious-landscape-study-full.pdf>

Thanks.

[David Kaye]

Post by Thad Floryan
in the right sidebar, next-to-last line, and her birth name is
Dianne Emiel Goldman which doesn't sound Irish to me.

It's not Irish, but it's not Jewish, either. Plus, one's Jewishness
descends from the mother's side, not the father's, so someone can have the
last name Wong and be Jewish, or Fleishacker and not be Jewish.

[Travis James]

Post by David Kaye

Post by Thad Floryan
in the right sidebar, next-to-last line, and her birth name is
Dianne Emiel Goldman which doesn't sound Irish to me.

It's not Irish, but it's not Jewish, either. Plus, one's Jewishness
descends from the mother's side, not the father's, ...

Are you serious? What the heck does that mean? What is Jewishness?

[David Kaye]

Post by Travis James
Are you serious? What the heck does that mean? What is Jewishness?

Well, you could start with the "Jew FAQ":
http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm

[Travis James]

Post by David Kaye

Post by Travis James
Are you serious? What the heck does that mean? What is Jewishness?

http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm

Thanks for the link. I scanned it and may read in the future. It falls
under the category of "no practical use for me" yet kind of interesting
nonetheless.

[SMS]

Post by David Kaye

Post by SMS
Lafayette (Abraham Pletman, Olson (Sid Olson), Allied (Simon Wexler),
Radio Shack (Deutschmann brothers).

Dianne Feinstein isn't a Jew by the way. Just so you know....

LOL, of course she is.

[David Kaye]

Post by SMS
LOL, of course she is.

No, she's not. She's not only not Jewish, but she attended Catholic
schools. Just goes to show how racist people are by automatically thinking
that someone is of a particular background just based on superficialities
like a name.

The other day one of my tech customers asked me (all within 2 or 3 minutes)
whether I was Jewish, diabetic, had heart problems, and was married. This
was likely because Kaye sounds Jewish (it's not), I'm overweight but
healthy, and I showed up at his house on a Sunday (obviously doesn't have a
family).

If I weren't such a whore I'd have walked out. I was there to fix his
computer, not tell him my life story for his amusement.

[Don Freeman]

Post by David Kaye

Post by SMS
LOL, of course she is.

No, she's not. She's not only not Jewish, but she attended Catholic
schools.

Then there is a whole lot of documentation that you may want to have
changed to fit your reality.

Examples:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/DFeinstein.html
http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/feinstein-dianne
http://www.jewishachievement.com/bios/feinstein.html

There seem to be a lot of Jewish organizations that don't hold it
against her that it was her dad that was Jewish even though her mom was
Catholic.

What exactly is considered Jewish enough anyway? Does one have to both
follow the religion of Judaism as well as have a genealogical heritage?

BTW: You don't have to be Catholic to attend Catholic High School.

[Travis James]

What exactly is considered Jewish enough anyway? Does one have to both
follow the religion of Judaism as well as have a genealogical heritage?
BTW: You don't have to be Catholic to attend Catholic High School.

Good point. I went to a Catholic high school and wouldn't be caught dead
with that label associated with me. It does cost more in tuition to
attend as a non-Catholic. But I digress.

[SMS]

Post by David Kaye

Post by SMS
LOL, of course she is.

No, she's not. She's not only not Jewish, but she attended Catholic
schools.

Lots of Jewish kids went to Catholic schools in that era. But my
mistake, officially she is not Jewish since her mother was not Jewish.
She identified herself as Jewish throughout her life.

Post by David Kaye
The other day one of my tech customers asked me (all within 2 or 3 minutes)
whether I was Jewish, diabetic, had heart problems, and was married. This
was likely because Kaye sounds Jewish (it's not),

Lot's of Jewish Kaye's, I would have thought the same.

[Roy]

How about Alltronics?

Post by Glenn Geller
Here an alphabetical list of some Northern California tech and electronics stores. For historical interest, I threw in some defunct stores.
The list is a work in progress. Which stores might I add or delete?
**************************************************
Action Computer and Surplus (Sunnyvale)
http://www.actioncomputerstore.com
Anchor Electronics (Santa Clara)
http://www.anchor-electronics.com
Al Lasher’s Electronics (Berkeley)
http://www.allashers.com
Central Computers
(SF, Santa Clara, San Mateo, Sunnyvale, Newark)
http://www.centralcomputers.com
Digicircle (Fremont) (will-call)
http://www.digicircle.com
DigitalGuru Technical Bookshop (Sunnyvale)
http://www.digitalguru.com/aboutus.asp
Electronics Etc (Berkeley) (defunct)
Electronics Plus (San Rafael)
http://www.electronicplus. com [sic]
Excess Solutions (Miliptas)
http://www.excesssolutions.com
Fry’s Electronics
(Sunnyvale, Palo Alto, Campbell, Fremont, San Jose, Concord)
http://www.frys.com
Hometech Solutions (Cupertino)
http://www.hometech.com
HSC Electronic Supply (Santa Clara, Rohnert Park, Sacramento)
http://www.halted.com
Jameco Electronics (Belmont) (will-call)
http://www.jameco.com
Microcenter (Santa Clara)
http://www.microcenter.com
Mike Quinn Electronics (Oakland) (defunct)
Quement Electronics (San Jose) (defunct)
San Mateo Electronics (San Mateo)
http://www.smelectronics.com
Santa Cruz Electronics (Santa Cruz)
http://www.santacruzelectronics.com
Weird Stuff Warehouse (Sunnyvale)
http://www.weirdstuff.com
UC Berkeley Overstock and Surplus (Richmond)
http://businessservices.berkeley.edu/overstock/location
UC Davis Bargain Barn, Davis
http://bargainbarn.ucdavis.edu
Zack Electronics (San Francisco& Milpitas) (defunct)

[SMS]

Post by Roy
How about Alltronics?

Good point, I forgot about them.
<http://www.alltronics.com>.

For defunct stores I'd add Haltek in Mountain View.

[Bhairitu]

Post by Glenn Geller
Here an alphabetical list of some Northern California tech and electronics stores. For historical interest, I threw in some defunct stores.
The list is a work in progress. Which stores might I add or delete?

Last time I visited these places they sold some hardware and parts but
maybe have gone completely to repair.

AiM Computers in Concord (near Fry's)
http://www.aimcomp.com/
(seems to be redoing their site)

Paramount Computers in Concord (behind Tower Records aka Rasputin)
http://goparamountcomputers.com/

There are probably a lot more "hole in the walls" that mainly do repair
business but may have some hardware and accessories to sell.

[QN]

Anybody remember the old Peninsula Electroncs, and their big yellow catalog?

[SMS]

Post by Glenn Geller
Here an alphabetical list of some Northern California tech and electronics stores. For historical interest, I threw in some defunct stores.
The list is a work in progress. Which stores might I add or delete?

<http://www.hobbyengineering.com> South San Francisco. A lot of
microcontroller stuff.

[Bob Vaughan]

Post by Glenn Geller
Here an alphabetical list of some Northern California tech and
electronics stores. For historical interest, I threw in some defunct
stores.
The list is a work in progress. Which stores might I add or delete?
Zack Electronics (San Francisco & Milpitas) (defunct)

Zack's was originally in Palo Alto on High St (in the Zachariah Building),
San Francisco, and Sacramento. The PA location moved to Milpitas, and
then at some point they moved to the LA area, and became mail order only.
As far as I know, they are now out of business.

I used to buy all sorts of Switchcraft connectors there, to the point where
the counter staff would sometimes ask me for a part number, instead of
looking it up for a counter customer.


HDB Electronics on Spring St in Redwood City (defunct).

This is one of the places that I _really_ miss. They had just about
everything I wanted in components. I bought about $400 worth of parts
(at %60 off) the final week they were open, knowing that I probably would
not be able to find some of them again locally. had a great selection of
Amphenol, Switchcraft, and Neutrik connectors, components, IC's, hardware,
etc.. Small place, friendly staff. If they didn't have it, I probably
could not find it locally. Better selection than Jameco on some items.


Active - Santa Clara (big chain - defunct)

big retail storefront, expensive, but they had a good selection if you were
desperate.

[David Kaye]

Post by Bob Vaughan
Zack's was originally in Palo Alto on High St (in the Zachariah Building),
San Francisco, and Sacramento. The PA location moved to Milpitas, and
then at some point they moved to the LA area, and became mail order only.
As far as I know, they are now out of business.

Still in business and still owned by the Zachariah family. When I worked in
Sacto TV we had a guy come by who called himself "Chuck Zackit" and was
apparently involved with company ownership. I'm wondering if he was fibbing
or if his name was really Zachariah but wanted to identify more with
Zack/Zackit.

Oh, website: http://www.zackelectronics.com/servlet/StoreFront

[Bob Vaughan]

Post by David Kaye

Post by Bob Vaughan
Zack's was originally in Palo Alto on High St (in the Zachariah Building),
San Francisco, and Sacramento. The PA location moved to Milpitas, and
then at some point they moved to the LA area, and became mail order only.
As far as I know, they are now out of business.

Still in business and still owned by the Zachariah family. When I worked in
Sacto TV we had a guy come by who called himself "Chuck Zackit" and was
apparently involved with company ownership. I'm wondering if he was fibbing
or if his name was really Zachariah but wanted to identify more with
Zack/Zackit.
Oh, website: http://www.zackelectronics.com/servlet/StoreFront

Good to know..

I remember hearing that they had gone under a few years back, and
could find no trace of them when I looked at that time..

Glad to see I was wrong..

[David Kaye]

Post by Bob Vaughan
I remember hearing that they had gone under a few years back, and
could find no trace of them when I looked at that time..
Glad to see I was wrong..

We're both wrong in various ways. Zack's is still in business, and when I
first posted the reply I had seen several corporate websites that listed N V
Zachariah as president. Well, apparently he sold a few years ago and now
someone else is running the company.

[SMS]

Post by David Kaye
We're both wrong in various ways. Zack's is still in business, and when I
first posted the reply I had seen several corporate websites that listed N V
Zachariah as president. Well, apparently he sold a few years ago and now
someone else is running the company.

Thanks, I had no idea they were still in business. They used to have a
store in San Jose on Montague Expressway that I went to occasionally.

I think the _original_ Fry's, the one on Lakeside Dr in Sunnyvale, had a
very big effect on the independent stores like Quement, Zacks, Haltek,
etc.. Most of what they sold were electronic parts, unlike the current
incarnation of Fry's. Back then, Fry's was considered an independent
store, it wasn't nationwide like it is now.

[Thad Floryan]

Post by Bob Vaughan
[...]

Post by Glenn Geller
Zack Electronics (San Francisco & Milpitas) (defunct)

Zack's was originally in Palo Alto on High St (in the Zachariah Building),
San Francisco, and Sacramento. The PA location moved to Milpitas, and
then at some point they moved to the LA area, and became mail order only.
As far as I know, they are now out of business.
I used to buy all sorts of Switchcraft connectors there, to the point where
the counter staff would sometimes ask me for a part number, instead of
looking it up for a counter customer.
[...]

Yes! That's the one I remember was in downtown Palo Alto and at
which I cleaned them out of Ersin multicore solder. :-)

[SMS]

Post by Glenn Geller
Jameco Electronics (Belmont) (will-call)
http://www.jameco.com

Note that there is no minimum order at Jameco for Will Call. A bit of a
drive for me, but when you need something right away, at least it's
available.

I have been buying from Jameco since the 1970's when they were called
James Electronics, and were in San Carlos on Howard Avenue.

[Anthony]

Post by Glenn Geller
Here an alphabetical list of some Northern California tech and electronics stores. For historical interest, I threw in some defunct stores.
The list is a work in progress. Which stores might I add or delete?

Metro Electronic (Downtown Sacramento)
http://www.metro-electronics.com/

[Anthony]

Post by Anthony

Post by Glenn Geller
Here an alphabetical list of some Northern California tech and
electronics stores. For historical interest, I threw in some defunct
stores.
The list is a work in progress. Which stores might I add or delete?

Metro Electronic (Downtown Sacramento)
http://www.metro-electronics.com/

Oh yeah... http://g.co/maps/7jkg7